Katarzyna

D'oh, ok, that answers my question. Thanks Magus!

Kat

Magus55

Do you have to turn a serious discussion into another opportunity to mock and ridicule?

CX

All, let's try to keep the tone of this discussion reasonable. In other words please avoid sarcasm, condescension or a mocking tone.

Thanks

CX - BC&H Moderator

Mageth

Well, my first comment was not an attempt to "mock and ridicule" (I was responding to Bill Snedden, after all), nor did I intend it sarcastically or condescendingly (again, I was responding to Bill); I meant it merely as an interjection of a bit of what I consider humor.

The second comment was a serious question. Where is heaven?

The third comment, while followed by a smilie, is also a valid point. If Jesus' resurrected body was physical (he ate, and was touched, after he was resurrected, after all), is it not limited by the laws of physics, and thus cannot travel faster than the speed of light upon being "taken up", limiting it to being no more than 2000 light years from earth?

JoeNothin

Magus55, I'm curious what you think of this: How can Jesus, being God thus having all of God's power, be omnipresent. If he's in a physical body, doesn't that mean he can only be in one place at a time?

Magus55

His body isn't just physical, its also spiritual and glorified. After His ressurection, Jesus walked through walls. His body is in a state, that while physical, isn't physical like our mortal bodies and being that he's God, His body isn't bound to the laws of physics like ours are ( unless you've walked through a wall recently). I'm also not sure omnipresence means physically in all places. God can't be part of sin, therefore you won't find Him in sinful actions or objects. I'd say omnipresence refers to His power and sovereignty extends to every corner of the universe. As to the exact answer, I don't know, but either way, Jesus' body is beyond what we can imagine.

Magus55

We don't know where Heaven is. Its a created place, but no clue where it actually is. Haven't been there.

And Jesus' body isn't the physical type we think of. Yes He can touch, eat, feel, etc, but He can also walk through walls. I'm inclined to believe based on how the Bible describes His Body as both physical and spiritual, that it isn't bound to the laws of physics. And of course, Jesus could also appear anywhere He wants. Why would He even be required to travel 2000 light years? All He has to do is think of Heaven, and He appears there.

Katarzyna

Magus, do you think heaven is located where mortal man can find it? In other words, do you think it's a part of the known universe?

Kat

Magus55

No

Toto

I think that William Lane Craig claims that heaven is in some 4th or greater dimension of the space-time continuum. I don't think he knows what he is talking about.

Otherwise, I cannot see that the opening question was serious. I think it was another attempt to show that those with supernatural beliefs do not have a coherent philosophy that fits in with modernism. Contrary to Magus55, this was never a serious discussion to be spoiled by mockery and ridicule, it was an open invitation to examine the ridiculous nature of supernatural beliefs, preferably staying within the guidelines of reasonable discourse and avoiding personal insults and flames.

But perhaps it can be saved.

The claim has been made that references to Jesus walking through walls are lingering evidence of an earlier Docetism, in which Jesus was a spirit who only gave the impression of being human. Would anyone care to discuss this, or some other topic that can be related to Biblical Criticism or History?

Otherwise this thread may be moved.