Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 12-20-2011, 05:25 PM

The Chrestians in Acts

According to the Codex Sinaiticus; Acts 11:26 ...

"the disciples were first called Chrestians first in Antioch"

If the disciples were called "Chrestians" first, then does anyone have any idea when the nation of "Chrestians" became known as the nation of "Christians"?

SOURCE

The Chrestians in Tacitus

We see the same modus operandi in the 11th century manuscripts of Tacitus.

See Tacitus on Chrest:

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIKI

"...... called Christians by the populace ...."

is actually ....

"...... called Chrestians by the populace ...."

Caption: Detail of the 11th century copy of Annals, the gap between the 'i' and 's' is highlighted in the word 'Christianos'.

What's going on with the Chrestians in antiquity?
Who are they?
Can anyone explain the Chrestians morphing to Christians?

aa5874 · 12-20-2011, 09:10 PM

It would appear that "Christians" were called ChrEstians by Romans based on "Ad Nationes" and the "Apology" attributed to an Apologetic source up to the end of the 2nd century and beyond.

Ad Nationes 1.3

Quote:

The name Christian, however, so far as its meaning goes, bears the sense of anointing. Even when by a faulty pronunciation you call us Chrestians (for you are not certain about even the sound of this noted name), you in fact lisp out the sense of pleasantness and goodness.

The Apology 3

Quote:

But Christian, so far as the meaning of the word is concerned, is derived from anointing. Yes, and even when it is wrongly pronounced by you Chrestianus (for you do not even know accurately the name you hate), it comes from sweetness and benignity...

stephan huller · 12-21-2011, 01:01 AM

Chrestianoi is once again a Latinism. The original term was Chrestoi. The terminology is NOT rooted in the pagan writings you adore so much (this adoration being prompted by your hatred of Christianity). The terminology is a Hebraism which is found throughout the Qumran material and OT in general. It means 'the upright' or 'the good' (even 'the righteous') and was probably a/the name the sectarians at Qumran called themselves.

Horatio Parker · 12-21-2011, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Chrestianoi is once again a Latinism. The original term was Chrestoi. The terminology is NOT rooted in the pagan writings you adore so much (this adoration being prompted by your hatred of Christianity). The terminology is a Hebraism which is found throughout the Qumran material and OT in general. It means 'the upright' or 'the good' (even 'the righteous') and was probably a/the name the sectarians at Qumran called themselves.

Qumran materials are in Greek? This is a Greek (language) term, isn't it? Just wondering...

Chili · 12-21-2011, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Chrestianoi is once again a Latinism. The original term was Chrestoi. The terminology is NOT rooted in the pagan writings you adore so much (this adoration being prompted by your hatred of Christianity). The terminology is a Hebraism which is found throughout the Qumran material and OT in general. It means 'the upright' or 'the good' (even 'the righteous') and was probably a/the name the sectarians at Qumran called themselves.

LIke Jewish protestants you mean much the same as our protestants and are always trying to be friends with each other. A sick world really isn't it?

stephan huller · 12-21-2011, 10:02 AM

Qumran materials are in Greek? This is a Greek (language) term, isn't it? Just wondering...

Proverbs 2:21 LXX (and Clement's use of this and other yesharim passages)

judge · 12-21-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

It would appear that "Christians" were called ChrEstians by Romans based on "Ad Nationes" and the "Apology" attributed to an Apologetic source up to the end of the 2nd century and beyond.

Ad Nationes 1.3

Quote:

The name Christian, however, so far as its meaning goes, bears the sense of anointing. Even when by a faulty pronunciation you call us Chrestians (for you are not certain about even the sound of this noted name), you in fact lisp out the sense of pleasantness and goodness.

The Apology 3

Quote:

But Christian, so far as the meaning of the word is concerned, is derived from anointing. Yes, and even when it is wrongly pronounced by you Chrestianus (for you do not even know accurately the name you hate), it comes from sweetness and benignity...

Nice post.
I've seen this point discussed many times here, but never seen this. Nice research aa.

mountainman · 12-21-2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Chrestianoi is once again a Latinism. The original term was Chrestoi. The terminology is NOT rooted in the pagan writings you adore so much

There are pagan sources, and these include Plato Supreme Theological Divinity, although technically an inexpressible essence and thus nameless, was associated with some names, amongst which the name "The Good" was specifically mentioned.

Quote:

(this adoration being prompted by your hatred of Christianity).

You are making a serious mistake stephan huller exactly like Roger Pearse who claims that my research into ancient history is prompted by my malice against Christianity. Whereas in fact I earnestly seek the ancient historical truth of christian origins, and I have followed the evidence. I see this either as some form of inflamatory remark, or as an entirely inaccurate judgement of my position.

mountainman · 12-21-2011, 09:16 PM

The following articles from historyhuntersinternational:

Chrestians and the lost history of Classical Antiquity

Chrest Magus

Acts of the Chresmologoi: the Role of Oracles and Chronicles in the Creation of Divine Men

Quote:

The below examples are taken from page 605 of Rev. John Groves' Greek-English Dictionary (Classical and New Testament Usages) imprinted 1828. The major element of notice is that each of these lexemes derives its root from a common verb form: χράω. On this page is calqued a family of words whose meanings convey concepts related to oracles, divination, prophecy, prophets, money lending, loans, etc. As can be seen in the first example, we also have not only the idea of usefulness, profit, and loans, but also the ideas of oracle, quotation, extract, passages taken from textual sources:

Χρη̃̃σις –ιος, Att. – εως, ή (fr. χράω to use) use, utility, profit; a loan, an oracle, response; a quotation, extract, passage from another writer a χρησιν.
Χρησμολογίω - ω̄, (fr. Χρηςμὸς an oracle, and λέγω to speak) to speak oracles, prophesy, foretell; to interpret omens, explain oracles.
Χρησμολογίa –ας ή (fr. same) delivery of an oracle, prophecy, divination, foretelling; interpretation or application of an oracle.
Χρησμολόγος, -ου ό ή (fr. same) a deliverer of oracles, a diviner, prophet; an interpreter or expounder of oracles.
Χρησήρ, -η̃ρος, ό (fr. χράω to deliver oracles) giving oracles, oracular.
Χρηστήριος, - ον, ό (fr. χράω to deliver oracles) oracular, foreboding, prophetic.
Χρήστης, -ου, ό (fr. χράω to lend) a creditor, lender of money, usurer; a debtor, borrower; a declarer of oracles, prophet.

By way of casual observation, it is curious that with the exception of the lexemes chresmologos and chresmologia, all of the other words on our list derive from the verb form χραω and rather nonchalantly is rendered as "to use, to deliver oracles" (several times), and "to lend." In each case the root of the verb is consistent; however the vowel shift in the noun form, or compound, evidences a vowel shift or consonant change in the root. While some of the vowel shifts can be explained as a result of stress shift in multisyllabic words, it is not at all clear why some lexemes in this family employ certain vowels and not others. This particular tendency with the Χρηςτ – root appears fixed in the lexicography of nineteenth-century Greek-English dictionaries and the question confronts the curious student of history regarding the presence of any bias in reading and rendering Χρηστ- as Χριστ-.

To frame the question more simply: at what point in history does it become possible for givers of oracles and money lenders to become anointed and Christians? Second, and just as important, when and why 'Jesus Christ' vice 'Jesus Chrest'?

stephan huller · 12-21-2011, 09:45 PM

You should be flattered by my assumption that your research is guided by malice. The alternative is personal derangement.

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12-21-2011, 01:01 AM	#3
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Chrestianoi is once again a Latinism. The original term was Chrestoi. The terminology is NOT rooted in the pagan writings you adore so much (this adoration being prompted by your hatred of Christianity). The terminology is a Hebraism which is found throughout the Qumran material and OT in general. It means 'the upright' or 'the good' (even 'the righteous') and was probably a/the name the sectarians at Qumran called themselves.

12-21-2011, 10:02 AM	#6
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Qumran materials are in Greek? This is a Greek (language) term, isn't it? Just wondering... Proverbs 2:21 LXX (and Clement's use of this and other yesharim passages)

12-21-2011, 09:45 PM	#10
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	You should be flattered by my assumption that your research is guided by malice. The alternative is personal derangement.

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