Clivedurdle

And don't forget that the latest research on the eye brain continuum is noting we only actually see 20% of anything - the brain makes up the other 80%!

Amaleq13

It doesn't. It resolves the apparent contradiction of Paul claiming to preach the same faith he persecuted and preaching something he obtained from no man but by revelation.

The same faith persecuted then preached is Christ crucified.

The uniquely revealed truth is Paul's "good news" for gentiles who have faith in Christ crucified.

No contradiction and certainly no disagreement with anything Paul says.

There is no alteration of anything Paul says.

Ben C Smith

You may be right, but I thought it was awfully kind of spin to diagnose your classic Meinung/Bedeutung separation for you. After all, before you can solve the problem, you have to know what it is.



Ben.

Jeffrey Gibson

Paul does not speak of a dying/rising Messiah. He speaks of a crucified and divinely raised Messiah. Moreover, the content of Paul's Gospel is the δικαιοσύνη θεοῦ[I] (i.e. God'd manifestation of his faithfulness to his covenant promises to Israel) in and through one who had been crucified** and who, therefore, in the eyes of Jews and Greeks could not have been, and would not ever be, god's anointed agent, let alone one who was capable of manifesting the δύναμις θεοῦ ... εἰς σωτηρίαν ... Ἰουδαίῳ τε πρῶτον καὶ Ἕλληνι·


Jeffrey

** For a good recent summary of the liereature documenting this, see the chapter entitled "The Righteousness of God" in Jouette Bassler's Navigating Paul (or via: amazon.co.uk).

gurugeorge

Thanks Ben, that tallies with the article I read.

Amaleq13

Yes, he must have been up all night with the DSM IV.

Ben C Smith

Here it is: DSM IV. I had to look that up! (Not my usual bedtime reading. )

Ben.

spin

To be accurate, no, he doesn't say that he preaches the same faith that he persecuted. The assemblies in Judea do. And this is what I like about Amaleq13, his willingness to believe people who'd never met Paul.

The same faith? Well, if you believe simple hearsay, then I guess you can even say that! As you don't know anything about the beliefs of the assemblies of Judea, you have nothing to help you arrive at the second part of the sentence, that what is proclaimed by both is christ crucified. It's pure conjecture.

The same unsupported conjecture.

I guess when you define all the terms to suit yourself you can hide any problem from yourself.

We see Paul's gospel when he contrasts faith in christ crucified with torah observance. Now, you'll swear blind that Paul is only contrasting christ crucified with torah observance because the first christians didn't understand the significance of their own belief in christ crucified.


spin

spin

Meinung/Bedeutung is one of the first issues one studies in general linguistics. The differences implicit between what goes into the transmission of a message and the reception of it. It's a linguistics issue, kiddies.


spin

GakuseiDon

Oh c'mon spin. Is that a serious comment? I've seen you being stubborn before, but you're close to joining mountainman and aa__ in the :deadhorse: stakes. Are you saying that the assemblies in Judea are lying? Or that Paul is lying? Either way, why on earth is Paul reporting it as if it were the truth?