long winded fool

Okay. I was responding to Opera Nut's claim that Magus55 can't be a "Christian Jew." It's not so dissimilar to calling yourself a "weak atheist." Because there are differing opinions on the definitions of words, calling oneself something that sounds contradictory is acceptable so long as one addresses the contradiction, as you have above. If what you call a weak atheist is what I call an open minded agnostic, then there is no miscommunication. It may cause confusion in your opponents to use terms in ways other than what your opponent sees as their connotation, but if, from your understanding, all true Christians are also children of Israel, then you can call yourself a Jew or a Christian and have no personal confusion on your religion. Jesus' apostles didn't "convert to Christianity." They followed whom they believed to be the Jewish Messiah. They were Jews.

If that's the extent of what they assume Muslim means, then I don't see any reconciliation needed. If a Muslim is one who submits to God, and if Jesus' ministry was nothing more or less than about submitting to God, then they are a Christian Muslim. If they feel that some part of Jesus' ministry was erroneous, as most do, then how can they call themselves a follower of Jesus? They are a Muslim and not a Christian. (Unless of course they define either term differently than we do, in which case we have to use their definitions to see whether or not they are "satisfying their egos" or "baiting their opponents" as Opera Nut postulates.)

abe smith

Please don't say colloquial "you" when you mean "one". I ! have never called myself "a weak atheist" and I want to make clear, so there won't be any ambiguity about it, that I label myself "a STONE atheist".
Yes LWF, ordinarily the loose-use (by a diarrhetic goose) of "you" to mean "one" is okay, although loose.... but here & now in this thread it has alleged a label about me that I reject.

(Oi picky picky picky)

Opera Nut

Thank you for pointing out that the existence of god proof, the burden is on the believer, since an atheist is not obligated to prove the non-existence of god.


I still haven't gotten an answer as to why Magus insists on having it both ways. He wants to be a Jew and a Christian both and I do not know what kind of psychological need this cognitive dissonance satisfies.

And he still has not reconciled the OT requirements for the Messiah with the things that Jesus did, which in no way meet those requirements in the Pentateuch.

I have yet to see a Christian upon these boards answer a theological conflict of Scriptures question in a straightforward and logical fashion.

This does not surprise me.

RED DAVE

From Aikorus:So, settle this one for me, boychik. If a Jew is one who is born of a Jewish mother, according to Halakah, and we can have 57 different varieties of Jews, including assorted heretics, atheists and socialists (like myself), why is it that as soon as a Jew converts to xtianity, he or she is no longer a Jew? I mean, why is there a distiction, and there is, between and atheists or heretic Jew on the one hand, and a xtian Jew, who calls theself a Jew and considers themself a Jew, on the other hand?

I mean, I know how this works. I, myself, life-long atheist and socialist, consider myself a Jew. But let me run into a Jew for Jesus (they have a headquarters, which they call a "safe house," not terribly far from where I live), and, viscerally, that person is NOT a Jew!

So, wassup? (I hope Consistent Thinker doesn't find this thread.)

RED DAVE

ex-xian

I think that non-religious jews think of jewishness ethnically. Like being german, native american, etc. While other think that jewishness is essentially religious.

However, a lot of xians think of themselves as the true jews, in the religious sense. The writings of Paul usually use "jew" ethnically, however, in Romans chapter 2, he wrote about those who are the true jews,
Since Paul wasn't sure how to use the word, it's no wonder that xian today have a problem figuring out what they believe a jew really is.

Apikorus

RD, there are different classes of heretics in Judaism: min, meshummad, mumar, apikorus, kofer batorah, etc. The halakhic answer to your question depends on various details. If you're interested you can read one opinion about it here.

Opera Nut

Circumcision of the heart????

Mixed metaphors or what?

Uh, since God created penii with foreskins and sheaths, in all mammals that I know of, I don't understand why God's creation has to be mutilated in the first place. It strikes me as yet another barbarity of Christianity disguised as ritual love.

Circumcision of the heart? No wonder people are confused.