Sven

So you're not a Christian? :huh:

Umm, yes. And how exactly do you determine which Christians are in error?

It says elsewhere that there's a mountain from which you can see the whole Earth.
It says elsewhere that demons cause diseases.
It says elsewhere that the sun stood still (instead of the Earth stopped rotating).
Etc. etc. etc.
As soon as you realize that you interpret those passages differently than as the plain words, you'll realize that Genesis doesn't necessarily says what happened. Ever heard of poetry?

Huge non sequitur.
Again here's the hidden premise that your god speaks throught the bible.
And again the hidden premise about interpretation, more specifically that everything is to be taken literally, rather than allegorically.

Another question: Columbo, what do you think about people who were never able to read the bible (because of reading problems or because simply no missionaries discovered them yet or because etc.)? If they discovered something about the real world which is at odds with the bible and only later got to read it - why exactly should they trust the bible more than their observations?

Duck!

You're probably aware that different sects of Christianity have different Bibles? The Catholic Bible and the Protestant Bible have different books in them, and the Catholics have a slightly different set of ten commandments in there's. There are also numerous different translations that appear from time to time. So in a very real sense, the Bible has changed. But that's not a topic for this forum.


Duck!

Sven

But each and every one is adamant that his interpretation is exactly the one the bible suggests. As are you. Where's the difference?

Sure.

Jack the Bodiless

Are you a flat-earther, Columbo?

I suppose you'd have to be. That's what the authors of the Bible believed, and what the Bible alludes to, repeatedly.

Though we're still no closer to an answer to my question: why believe the Bible at all? Why not accept that it's an "elemental philosophy from the imagination of man"?

BTW, this is getting into BC&H territory, but if you merely accept what the Bible says and don't try to "spin" it: please could you have a word with those Christians who won't accept that their God accepted human sacrifices such as the 32 Midianite virgins included in the "heave offering" in Numbers 31.

Columbo

And just how does that negate the two points I made which are; "The bible answers all things pertaining to it's complete theology. 2. No interpretation is there, if you let the bible explain the bible"?

People making errors doesn't allow you to conclude God is in error. That's illogical.

As I said, it's those persons fault. However, most of them will agree with eachother, pertaining to what Christ says. Infact, if they are both shown God's words and asked if they agree, they will both agree that those are God's words and that they don't change. Interpretation is irrelevant, as the bible explains the bible. How is it every Christian I know agrees with me Sven? Is it that infact you're exaggerating our tiny confusion over a few small verses?

Will our confusion = God didn't know what he said? I think not somehow.

The bible says salvation happens. You are not a Christian if you don't believe it does. Therefore, the Christian who reads the bible and believes in salvatipn has simply read it and believed. Hence all Christians believe Christ saves, and he died for our sins. Thus we agree on salvation, but it matters not about our interpretations, as the word of God is not in error just because we are.

Christ said he the lives and believes in Him, shall never die. The rest of the NT clarifies and confirms this multiple times. WHy is that? Because letting the bible explain the bible always works.

Likewise;

Person 1. Christian theist
Person 2. Christian YEC.

Person 1 or 2 both do not partake of these positions because of what God says in the bible, BECAUSE the bible doesn't mention evolution, nor does it state the earth is 6 thousand years old. Person 1 has gone and listened to scientists rather than God, and person 2 has gone and listened to apologists instead of God. God requires not that a mere man should bother himself pertaining to what actually happened.

Conclusion: The bible is not in error, nor reading and believing what God says is in error, nor can one interpret what God says as something else. Therefore the persons who work out bible addages are in error, and what Columbo said is still true, The bible answers all things pertaining to it's complete theology. 2. No interpretation is there, if you let the bible explain the bible.
.

Why? What does it have to do with the bible being not God's words? I've already told you - there can be people of different positions and interpretations, but I'm not asking them about what happened in the past am I. I said God knows what happened in the past and since when does reading the bible and what God says have anything to do with what a human says he meant?, and please read Genesis 1 if you think I'm wrong about that. As I have shown, people are irrelevant to my statements.

Of most biblical things, we agree. I'm betting all those denominations have differences because of influences which are external from the bible, like science, technology, culture. NOT because of the bible, as we all agree that Christ is the saviour, and that his words don't change.

Back up your assertion. That sounds like an interpretation os a verse which is irrelevant concerning the story it's trying to tell.

And? Please quote where it says aswell.

Only a retard would think that Genesis is saying anything other than that which it is saying. I can only quote Genesis, which in itself is pure. But humans deriving positions from external sources will warp it in their own minds.


The fact is that Christians basically agree, but have petty differences. But things like evolution and six thousand years, just aren't in the bible.


"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth".

Please show me my how I have wrongly interpreted the above verse from Genesis.

It's what God said - it doesn;t change, therefore when I rely on what God knows, I can assuredly say that in the beginning he created the heavens and the earth. Are you getting what I mean yet?

You should know as a so called freethinker, that one cannot make conclusions without information. Therefore, one can wisely say "I know not, nor am sure what God means in this part of the bible".

Does that mean God didn't say it or that God's words are innacurate? WHy ofcourse not. Where is your logic Sven.

JLK

These "petty differences" are:
The "calendar day" interpretation
The "day-age" interpretation
The "framework" interpretation
The "analogical days" interpretation
The "intermittent day" interpretation
The "gap"(or "reconstitution") interpretation
The "days of revelation" interpretation
The "days of divine fiat" interpretation
The "focus on Palestine" interpretation
The "Expanding time" interpretation

If you have complete assurance of biblical ambiguity on this topic, why are you here?

The word "raq'ia" is well known to Biblical scholars as describing something firm and hard. It is the "firmament", which for 1000+ years everyone accepted in accord with Greek&other ancient concepts of hard spheres surrounding the earth. Modern translators dishonestly change "raq'ia" to "expanse", claiming the same sense that the hard surface of a table is an "expanse", yet implying to uninformed readers "empty space".
Of course the cosmology of the Hebrews, as evidenced and described in detail by one of the Books of Enoch (who is called a "great prophet" in the New Testament), is one of a flat earth covered by a dome. Which is a major unaffirmed reason why the Apocryphal books were dumped when the "sola scripture" doctrine of Protestantism revived biblical awareness.
Please inform everyone of the formal justification given by Protestants for not including the Apocrypha.

Yes, Sven. As Ken Ham would say "Put On Your Biblical Glasses!!"
P1. The bible answers all things relative to 3+6=green.
P2. 3+6=green requires no interpretation if you let the bible explain itself.
C. 3+6=green is not inaccurate.

Sven

The point which flew directly over your head is that all other denominations are claiming that you make the errors. IOW, there's no way to determine whose interpretation is actually right.

:rolling:
You obviously know little about your religion. Go and read the link I provided.

I was right above. :rolling:

You still have not explained the meaning of this.

Then you know only fundamentalists. *shrug*

:rolling: No, salvation isn't an important thing at all. :rolling:

I didn't make this equation. I only say that you've no way to know if you interpret the bible correctly.
Since your interpretation is at odds with reality, this suggest that you doesn't.

Read the link.

You mean examples such as Paul explaining away the plain meaning of what Jesus said about his second coming?

It doesn't mention the decimal digits of pi either. So what?

Implicitely it does. We already discussed this previously, you ignored it.

You mean scientists like the ones who told us about the decimal digits of pi?

:huh: Obviously one can and one does.

Umm, you mean just like Genesis?
(it's Matthew 4:8 BTW)

What "And"? Do you agree?
(sorry, no reference)

Only a retard would think that Matthew 4:8 is saying anything other than that which it is saying.

BTW, then the majority of Christians (and non-Christians) on Earth are retarted.

Ever heard about poetry? All this verse says is that god started "everything". Not inconsistent with evolutiuon in anyway.

[snip more crap based on misunderstandings]

Sven

Now I'm a from believer! Praise JLK .... umm ... the lord! :notworthy

Fallon

My emphasis, man.
Reference for this'd be nice, since the books seem to separate possession and disease (ah, but demon'ds do not exist, ye say, thus they must be psychologisin' ills and mental disease: a faire point. Arr!)

But even if it is a false claim - as it appears to be - it does not negate the greater point.


Fallon

Sven

Umm .. this should be "firm"

To Fallon: I already said that I've no reference. I think I picked this up somewhere at IIDB, not in the bible directly. So it's very possible that I'm wrong and the bible doesn't say this.