John A. Broussard

Wasn't the whole point to Jesus coming to earth was for him to be crucified, since that was necessary in order to save mankind?

I know the wording above is open to challenge, but I think it's substantially correct.

If it is, then why is Judas such a bad guy? After all, he made the crucifixion possible. And why the hatred of Jews as Christ-killers. Wasn't that the whole point? Didn't He have to be killed.

Seems to me that sainthood should have to be granted to those who made the salvation of mankind a reality.

Is the above a reasonable view of this central point in Christianity?

Lemur

Judas was damned in the Gospels by Jesus:

This verse trumps any argument in favor of Judas being canonized.

John A. Broussard

But Judas did exactly what he was supposed to do--act in such a way as to provide salvation for all of mankind. Seems a shame to condemn him for this single magnificent and magnanimous action.

Agemegos

You are confusing outcomes with aims.

Lemur

Too bad, Jesus said he's doomed, end of story.

This thread reminds me of the end of Jesus Christ Superstar, when Judas cries out wanting to know why God chose him for this crime. Of course JCS is unbiblical but it's still interesting.

Diogenes the Cynic

Wouldn't a condemnation of Judas carry an implication that his "betrayal" was an act of will which was contrary to the wishes of God?

If he was doing God's will, how could it be a sin? If his betrayal was not God's will then what did God want Judas to do?

Could Judas have chosen not to drop a dime on JC? If he had chosen that route, what would Jesus have done?

Agemegos

No, only that it was contrary to God's commandments.

Suppose for comparison that a police detective dressed herself up as a prostitute and stood on a street corner. It would certainly be her intention in that case that some man should solicit her for commercial sex. The actions of the dupe would be in accordance with the wishes of the officer but contrary to the law.

God had to have himself crucified to appease his anger at his own creation. So he went near some evil men and tempted them to crucify him. They did. Mission accomplished. That makes God a devious psychotic, but it doesn't make the evil people blameless.

Anyway, my point was more to do with Judas's aims than God's. Whether he had free will or not, Judas's intention at the time of his betrayal was not to save mankind. Therefore, the fact that he accidentally saved mankind cannot be held to his credit.

Chris Weimer

But since all is God's will, he never really had a choice. Omniscient/Omnipotent God != Free will.

gurugeorge

Yep, what a peculiar rigmarole!

Agemegos

Magnanimous? That depends on his motivation. Only if Judas knew Jesus was God and needed to be crucified, and betrayed Christ contrary to his own interest for the salvation of Mankind can Judas's actions be construed as magnanimous.

If Judas doubted Jesus divinity, if he was acting in what he believed were his own best interests and against someone else's the qualifier 'magnanimous' is not appropriate.