Sheshbazzar

Here is approximately how Judaism came to interpret/read and understand the Fourth commandment:

You must not take up the Name (YHWH) to desecrate (it), for (YHWH) will not hold guiltless whosoever takes up His Name to desecrate (it)

For those who read this, understand, that although the proper personal NAME (YHWH) occurs twice within the text, organized Judaism deliberately under the BAN, substitutes the generic term 'Elohim' when reading from or reciting from Torah, and this has been the ACCEPTED CUSTOM now for some 2200 years.
In regard to the BAN, if becomes known, among Orthodox Jews, that one of their members persistently violates the 'MISHPAT', that person is to be shunned, family members and friends are to tear their garments, for that person has became dead; no person in the community, living subject to the rules of the Jewish religion, is to speak to that individual, nor knowingly enter into any business transaction, effectively that person becomes dead, neither husband, nor wife, nor parents, nor children, nor friends are to have any social intercourse at all with that soul, all must rend their garments, and mourn, and turn their backs in his presence. For he (or she) IS dead.
Now days this ban finally seems to be slipping, (thankfully) and it is no longer an ironclad rule 'that Jews don't speak the NAME' because many no longer submit to the rules laid down by the Fathers.
So that some now have also accepted some variation of the Fourth commandment similar in reading and interpretation to that which I above offered as my own rendering.
Hope this helps, Sheshbazzar

Sheshbazzar

Another possible solution;

5. Yahshua DID speak up against slavery and the discrimination of women, and many other evils done among men...(Jn.21:25)

and His words WERE written in the gospels, however even as men were adding onto His words, putting sayings in His mouth that he did not speak,
Likewise at that same time, they were removing from the words which He DID speak, even all those things which offended them, which they were not willing to admit into their counterfeit man made doctrines, and churches.(2Cor.11:13-15)

They went out from among us, they ran, they taught a another gospel,
which we did not preach, in another name which we do not accept,
They have made a big name for themselves, we sent them not;
And whatsoever lies, whatsoever evils, whatsoever foolishness of ignorance, they have perpetrated in their name, let it be upon their own heads.

As Yah Yahweh spoke by His prophet;
In the latter days you shall understand it perfectly; I have not sent these preachers, yet they ran; I have not spoken to them, yet they preached.
But if they had been steadfast in My counsels, And had caused My people to hear My words, then they should have turned from their evil WAY, and from the evil of their doings.
I have heard what the the preachers said, that preach lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed.
How long shall this be in the heart of the preachers that preach lies?
Yes, they are the preachers of the deception of their own heart;
Which think to cause My people to forget My NAME by their dreams,
which they tell every man to his neighbor, Even as their fathers have forgotten My Name for 'the lord'.
The preacher that has a dream, let him tell a dream;
And he that has My Word, let him SPEAK MY WORD FAITHFULLY.
What is the chaff to the wheat? says YAHWEH
Is not My WORD like a fire? says YAHWEH
And like a hammer that breaks the ROCK in pieces?
Therefore take heed, I am against the preachers, says YAHWEH, that steal
My words everyone from his neighbor.
Take heed, I am against the preachers, says YAHWEH, that use their tongues, and say, "He said"

For the message came unto men, by the words of preaching, but they have perverted the living words of Elohim; even YAHWEH almighty our Elohim.

Alf

As I said, that leaves open the question what OTHER things are left out from the bible? How can anyone claim that the bible has any authority whatsoever as "the word of God" if important portions of the teaching has been removed from it?

You are shooting yourself in the foot with this approach.

Alf

Chili

Here we go, "And like a hammer that breaks [faith] into pieces." Both Judas and Peter are faith to be broken into pieces through understanding.

muidiri

Sometimes I find it difficult to determine a particular stance...

Sheshbazzar - If I am interpreting your posts correctly, you seem to be arguing that the NT is bogus, Jesus is not the son of god, but a sinful man. It seems, however, that you are also arguing that the OT is a fairly accurate rendition of the word of god, and that Chrisitans are pretty much condemning themselves by following preachers which have already been denounced by god. Have I got that right, or am I missing something?

Thesis statements sure would be helpful sometimes

Sheshbazzar

We know by the record of the Scriptures themselves that the record is not complete, and in fact has at no time within the time frame of written history, ever been complete, earlier books were written and lost and forgotten. (Not 'lost' to YAH, for all that ever was, is, or shall be, is within His reach. and never been forgotten by the DEVOUT, only that Father Yahweh, has placed them out of our reach for a short season.) before the latter books were even written.

You do error most grievously to think that all that has been found is all that ever will be found, or that all that is now known, is all that will ever be known, for you do not know what tomorrow will bring, nor what is hidden today that tomorrow, will be brought into the light.

Men of faith hope for that which is yet to be unveiled, and made manifest, This hope is engendered by that which HAS been revealed, that we might live with hope towards those things yet promised, For no man holds hope for that which he has already obtained, but for things yet to be received.

The true preachers of the Elohim named, YAH YAHWEH, and of the doctrine of YAH-hoshua the Messiah, have NEVER at any time had a 'closed cannon' of Scripture, that so called 'closed cannon' is a product of them whom from the beginning have not listened too nor kept His words dear to their hearts, they have for long time went astray, creating their own books, putting their own words into the mouths of His prophets, and removing His words, Even as He said they would.

My Bible (books that I have hope in, and for) are as of this day, eighty and four in number. I trust that in due time that power whom I call Yahweh will reveal His unadulterated word to all men, and in that day, all mankind shall fall over backwards. (Jn 18:6) As easily as in the day that He first spoke;

"Let Him be light, and He was light"....even so, in that day; There SHALL BE light, and NO darkness anywhere at all, and nothing concealed.

Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall be called to give account for;
Are you indeed so sure that you have learned everything there is to know?

Sheshbazzar

Thank you Chili for providing such a perfect example of altering the WORD of Yahweh, by deleting His chosen word, to substitute a word after your own imaginations. Yahweh will not prevent you from perverting His Holy words, so go ahead make an 'example' of your self that all might do well to consider.

Sheshbazzar

The 'jesus' that 'christiaity' wrote backwards into the text is a fabrication, very much of the so called 'gospels' is pure mythology created by the cult of 'christianity' to serve as a vehicle for their doctrines of 'dreams.'

The so called 'old' testament, suffered first in the hands of apostate Israel, then in the hands of 'christians', That the writings are faulty and untrustworthy there is no doubt at all in the minds of honest men whether, they label themselves skeptics or label themselves believers.

But the true Testament of which we speak, is not a matter of books, but of a love unfeigned, and of abiding trust, and of lasting hope.
The faith that I received was by a spoken word, from the lips of a man,
which I heard,and which I believed, and I was immersed into the name of YAHshua the Messiah, and from that day have lived with hope and trust in the name of YAHshua.
for it is in Him I trust, a word not made with hands, and a testament not made of paper, unalterable, and thus being founded, Books add nothing, neither take anything away from that Testament.

Chili

You are very close and here I agree with my friend (even if he doesn't agree with me, lol).

Jesus is not the son of God but he is the redeemer of the son of God to the world and therefore Jesus is "the way" to the truth but not the truth itself or they would have never crucified him.

No, Jesus was not a sinful man but the cross he bore were the sins of his world to which he needed to die to set free the son of man . . . which he did and introduced to his mother while dying on the cross: "mother, there is your son, son there is your mother." Surely, this was not a lie as if to say that they crucified the wrong one! Of course not and Jesus concluded "now it is finished." (Remember here that Jesus was the living proof of Passover).

This favorite apostle was John the Baptist incarnate who therefore was born in the netherworld, 'of old,' to which Jesus would be added to be 'the new' and could give a rendition of both the Old and the New in the Revelation by John who was the favorite better half of Jesus.

The NT is not bogus but the preachers are to some extent. Like Sheshbazzar wrote (cited?)

"The preacher that has a dream, let him tell a dream;
And he that has My Word, let him SPEAK MY WORD FAITHFULLY.
What is the chaff to the wheat? says YAHWEH
Is not My WORD like a fire? says YAHWEH
And like a hammer that breaks the ROCK in pieces?
Therefore take heed, I am against the preachers, says YAHWEH, that steal
My words everyone from his neighbor.
Take heed, I am against the preachers, says YAHWEH, that use their tongues, and say, "He said."

Point is, there are no Christians religions, there never was and there never will be. There is no closed Canon but a living Word wherefore the true Church must be Infallible (inspired) to be able to prolaim this Word. It just can't be any other way.

Chili

The nation Israel must be apostate because Israel is a state of mind and the reality of which dreams are made.