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Old 03-03-2007, 12:32 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Johann_Kaspar View Post
Mt 14:25, Mk 6:48, Jn 6:19

Can you do better than the xian explanation? Usually it is presented as "faith can do all". Bultmann treats it as a "Naturwunder"...
Other gods half-flew-half-ran-like-mad across and just above the surface of the water, like jet powered hovercraft. Compare Hermes in Odyssey and Apollo in Argonautica. Is it "the fact" that Jesus deliberately "walked" on the surface of the water that is meant to set him apart and superior to all these other gods?
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Old 03-03-2007, 01:45 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Johann_Kaspar View Post
Can you do better than the xian explanation? Usually it is presented as "faith can do all".
All I have to do is come up with something better than "faith can do all"? You've got to shitting me.

-ice -mass hallucinations -biblical inaccuracy -insidious biblical lies -optical illusion -doublethink -common "knowledge" spread by rumor -extreme over exaggeration -naive people believing obvious lies and representing them as fact to more naive people -ubiquitous ignorance -people with too much sand in their eyes to know what's what

Is that enough for you?
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Old 03-04-2007, 07:34 AM   #13
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Can you do better than the xian explanation?
Sure, just as soon as someone gives me a good reason to believe that it really happened. Until then, there is nothing to explain.
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Old 03-04-2007, 09:55 AM   #14
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Did anyone else notice the peculiarity of how in the OT stories, the water whether it be a sea or river, is always parted, and the passage is made upon the dry (land), and progress forward is "through the waters"
While in the NT, (and in Ode 39) the progress forward is made by walking upon (on top of) the waters?
Anyone care to offer some comments on this difference, or on the symbology that the writers may or may not have been employing?
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Old 03-04-2007, 03:50 PM   #15
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It's simple. He was a lizard...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwYACLMlhJg
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Old 03-04-2007, 06:02 PM   #16
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as a canadian, i walk on ater all the time. it's really not that big of a deal.
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Old 03-04-2007, 06:07 PM   #17
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Someone wrote it down and now we can read it. Voila!
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Old 03-04-2007, 06:43 PM   #18
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It looks to me that the passage was written be someone trying to make Yeshua bar-Yussef into a sort of super-Elijah
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Old 03-04-2007, 06:57 PM   #19
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It's simple. He was a lizard...


cute, however it reminds me of a poular tune from my youth; "Walk Don't Run" So I will just stick with the image of Him just plodding along on the water

Interesting comments Chili, You are most welcome to pour forth. [Lam. 2:19]

I thought I'd add these few more little sayings about water.

Num 24:7. He shall pour the water out of his buckets, and his seed [shall be] in many waters, and his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be exalted.

2Sa 22:17. He sent from above, he took me; he drew me out of many waters;


Psa 18:16. He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters.


Psa 29:3. The voice of YHWH [is] upon the waters: the El of glory thundereth: YHWH [is] upon many waters.


Psa 93:4. YHWH on high [is] mightier than the noise of many waters, [yea, than] the mighty waves of the sea.

Pro 20:5. Counsel in the heart of man [is like] deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out.

Sgs 8:. Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if [a] man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned.

Lam 2:17. YHWH has done [that] which He has devised; He has fulfilled His word that He has commanded in the days of old: He has thrown down, and has not pitied: and He has caused [your] enemy to rejoice over you, He has set up the horn of your adversaries.


Lam 2:18. Their heart cried unto the lord, O wall of the daughter of Zion, let tears run down like a river day and night: give yourself no rest; let not the apple of your eye cease.


Lam 2:19. Arise, cry out in the night: in the beginning of the watches pour out your heart like water before the face of the lord: lift up your hands toward him for the life of your young children, that faint for hunger in the top of every street.

Isa 17:13. The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but [Elohim] shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.
14. And behold at eveningtide trouble; [and] before the morning he [is] not. This [is] the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar
Did anyone else notice the peculiarity of how in the OT stories, the water whether it be a sea or river, is always parted, and the passage is made upon the dry (land), and progress forward is "through the waters"
While in the NT, (and in Ode 39) the progress forward is made by walking upon (on top of) the waters?
Anyone care to offer some comments on this difference, or on the symbology that the writers may or may not have been employing?
Still soliciting comments.
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Old 03-04-2007, 08:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar View Post
It's simple. He was a lizard...


cute, however it reminds me of a poular tune from my youth; "Walk Don't Run" So I will just stick with the image of Him just plodding along on the water

Interesting comments Chili, You are most welcome to pour forth. [Lam. 2:19]

I thought I'd add these few more little sayings about water.

Num 24:7. He shall pour the water out of his buckets, and his seed [shall be] in many waters, and his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be exalted.

2Sa 22:17. He sent from above, he took me; he drew me out of many waters;


Psa 18:16. He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters.


Psa 29:3. The voice of YHWH [is] upon the waters: the El of glory thundereth: YHWH [is] upon many waters.


Psa 93:4. YHWH on high [is] mightier than the noise of many waters, [yea, than] the mighty waves of the sea.

Pro 20:5. Counsel in the heart of man [is like] deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out.

Sgs 8:. Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if [a] man would give all the substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned.

Lam 2:17. YHWH has done [that] which He has devised; He has fulfilled His word that He has commanded in the days of old: He has thrown down, and has not pitied: and He has caused [your] enemy to rejoice over you, He has set up the horn of your adversaries.


Lam 2:18. Their heart cried unto the lord, O wall of the daughter of Zion, let tears run down like a river day and night: give yourself no rest; let not the apple of your eye cease.


Lam 2:19. Arise, cry out in the night: in the beginning of the watches pour out your heart like water before the face of the lord: lift up your hands toward him for the life of your young children, that faint for hunger in the top of every street.

Isa 17:13. The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but [Elohim] shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.
14. And behold at eveningtide trouble; [and] before the morning he [is] not. This [is] the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.




Still soliciting comments.
For those of you who like to quote chapter and verse from the bible in the interests of supporting a point of view in a scholarly fashion, just remember that you are quoting a work of fiction. To refer to the bible as a source hands an underserved victory to Christians, Jews and Muslims who want you to accept their source as a valid and factual account when it is neither. The bible, and all religious texts, should be rejected as would any comic book would be in an academic discussion. Consider the source, and don't accept the terms of those who present propaganda as if it were the equivalent of science.
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