River

As a true believer in both Science and Religion , I take offense to the verses that you presented. The verses that mentioned the " Jews" or " Jewish" do not exist as such....so why misrepresent it ?


---River

muslim8881

<insult deleted>

River

well thanks...just remember I never take the first swing.

people in general live in a fantasy world....what if one day their "bubble-gum" world pops? then what ...am I still responsible.....



-River

River

<deleted>


ON HIATUS
RIVER

Baidarka

muslim8881

I'm sorry if River and I Hijacked your thread and turned it into a shouting match. Although I enjoy holy writ as literature and appreciate that religion sometimes becomes a repository for human wisdom, great art , poetry. and music.. I think that religious leaders and holy writ are considered untouchable and unquestionable. I am not convinced that it is all good or well intentioned. I think that religion is often used to support evil. I find vile things in all the major religions.
Getting back to your questions.
"Does anyone here accept that there may well be a force that is beyond our understanding?"

Yes, I am awed by everything and I know that there are forces beyond my understanding. But I don't turn this awe into belief in the supernatural. I don't turn this awe into faith in religious frauds.

premjan

could be. if so, I stand corrected (pbuh).

0

This topic has strayed from its original premises. Please be advised that personal attacks are not tolerated in this forum. If there is going to be further discussion on Islam, I would appreciate the posters involved opening another thread on that topic. If this thread cannot continue in a satisfactory manner, it will be locked.

Thanks,
Tangie

muslim8881

Thanks for the info on David Koresh, though I don't believe you can generalise about all religious leaders in such a way. I also doubt very much that his movement would ever have become a mass movement.

hinduwoman

Moses --- Again was there really a man named Moses or was he simply a prop by a used by a dominant group? Besides Jews had relied a lot on rabbanical commentaries.

Christ: Christianity never took off until it became a State religion. After that political power was used to maintian dominance.

Muhammad was an extremely charismatic man. However, after his death his group nearly split itself apart. It was a successive generation of Caliphs who were both military genuises and good adminstrators who really established Islam as a world religion.

However in modern age all three groups are falling prey to evils of a comofortable lifestyle and lessening of enthusiasm.

hinduwoman

Well Sauron the leftist with whom I am having an extended argument, tells me that if I quote from Koran and Hadiths to show that Islam preaches violence and so the religion must change and mainstream muslims must give up their idea that Muhammad and Koran cannot be criticised, then I am a bigot who demonizes muslims to keep me warm at night by my hate.

He keeps on saying that the passages are not to be interpreted literally except by extremists. the texts really do not mean what they say because they have to interpreted.
I keep on saying that the bloody passages are there in the first place which is why there is so much trouble. And as long as mainstream muslims who may be peaceful but continue to hold the scriptures as divine continue doing so, then you will always have extremists and literal interpretations.


Frankly he can give you far more apologetics than River can give. But for some reason he refuses to buy same kind of apologetics Israelis give for their treatment of Palestines.