muslim8881

Hi everyone,

How do you explain such people as Moses, Jesus and Muhammad?

Were they wilful liars? Delusional? Sincere but misguided?

When they say they recieved revelations from God - what was really going on? Did they imagine it? Did they have a fit? Did they have some sort of mystical experience? Does it have any validity at all? Is there any benefitv from the religions they started?

Does anyone here accept that there may well be a force that is beyond our understanding?

Thanks,

Hassan

premjan

it was a mystical experience. these are not beyond human understanding. They are potentially of benefit. However, I recommend trying to understand their insight as opposed to following it blindly. Moreover, following blindly will never allow to understand why it is that the insights of such people are not all identical, and what to do when they differ.

Ben Willott

With exactly zero evidence to conclude otherwise, I must suggest that yes, all three of them were delusional.


Not I. However, I am prepared to entertain that notion, should enough valid evidence be provided. Not anecdotes, warm fuzzy feelings, myths, legends or assertions, but evidence.

premjan

a very important caveat is that the quality and nature of these insights are all different, and may or may not suit your individual temperament.

GermanHeretic

* they wanted political power
* they wanted money
* they wanted women
* they didn't exist and some people, who wanted politcial power, money, or women, made them up
* they took the wrong drugs, and actually heard voices
Yes, they all helped a little against overpopulation.
If it is beyond our understanding, it is not worth to devote an entire life to it.

lpetrich

The same way I explain Apollonius of Tyana and Alexander of Abonutichus.

Yawn.

There could be lots of such forces.

0

It is my belief that these men are no different from any other man that has ever held a vision and acted upon it with the wholeness of their being. Whether that vision is religious, political or humanitarian matters little. They are representative of the creative force in life; that an idea can be put into action, that something believed in strongly can forge entire movements throughout humanity.
From reading about them I do not feel that they are willful liars or even delusional. What I deem misguided, another may say is divine inspiration.
What I can say is that the teachings they preached and wrote of have led to both good and bad in their followers. The interpretation of their message is what leads to such conflict.

I differ from a theist viewpoint in that I feel that everything is from what we call God. The force of life births both the uplifting message and the divisive war. Without the force that animates it all, there would be neither. I say they acknowledge what they believe God to be, nothing more, nothing less.

I do. I believe that everything we see around us is tied together by one unifiying force. The definition of that force has not been tackled yet; we as a species have yet to fully understand the existence around us. The building blocks of the universe continue to unfold before us as science unravels the spiral of life.
However, literal personification of this force does not make it a literal physical manifestation. I do not believe in judgemental male figures sitting on thrones and casting judgement and hellfire at humankind. I see these instead as metaphor, a type of poetry that attempts to explain something that is beyond words, beyond language.
Like love, the force of creation is something that renders words useless. It is the actions therein that speak louder than words ever could.

Tangie

Son of Odin

Sounds a lot like Taoism...
I'm not critisising you here, but since we are on this forum...I want to ask: Is there any scientific proof for, or against this "life force" you beleive in ?

premjan

There is no such thing as a "life force". As living creatures, who identify with other living creatures in preference to non-living things, we see life as a sort of "force" acting against entropy. As a Buddhist, if you identify yourself with the entropic void (sunya) then your perspective is corrected to remove the need for a "life force" or other kind of identity.

Son of Odin

I'm not a Buddhist, and I also don't need a "life force" or other kind of identity, I just want to know if there is evidence "pro" or "contra" the existence of such a force.