Iskander

The conspirators are becoming neglectful of their duty. Beware the Ides of March.

jakejonesiv

I am not a Marcionophile. All the Christian sects believed in supernatural nonsense, of various degrees and types. Nor do I think that Marcion represented the earliest form of Christianity. The Marcionites and Cerinthians clashed in the early second century.

Jake

jakejonesiv

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874 Quote: Originally Posted by aa5874 I cannot at this time argue for a Big Black Hole for the Pauline letters up to 350 CE based on the FACT that Pauline letters [ P 46] have been RECOVERED and DATED Palaeography to the mid 2nd-3rd century. Quote: Originally Posted by jakejonesiv OK, you have modified your position after doing some research on P46. Thanks, Jake Why do you persist in your blatant propaganda?? You very well know that I made references to the dating of P 46 almost 1 year ago or longer. I have NOT modified my position it is you who have now reversed yourself. You have merely exposed that you are NOT credible. My position is Extremely Solid and well supported by ACTUAL RECOVERED Dated NT Manuscripts. There is a BIG BLACK HOLE of at least 150 years c 30 -180 CE for the Pauline writings My position is WELL-RESEARCHED--WELL-SUPPORTED and cannot be overturned based on the present existing evidence. No Amateur--No Scholar can successfully argue against my position. The Pauline letters were composed AFTER c 180 CE and BEFORE c 350 CE

:thumbs::down::thumbs::down: aa is a man who can have his cake and eat it too!

Duvduv

The fact is that since the Justin texts derive from a single manuscript from several hundred years ago, it is impossible to know what the original was and what got interpolated over time. However the contextual problems and poor writing should raise anyone's antennae to see that they could not possibly have originated in the second century.

aa5874

We cannot examine what we do NOT have or examine what we imagine was written. We will NEVER be able to know who wrote every word in any book or if any passage in any book is original.

We can examine writings attributed to Justin and CONFIRM that those writings as found today Do NOT mention Paul, the Pauline letters to Churches, Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline Revealed Teachings.

The Copies of writings attributed to Justin Martyr do NOT advance the argument that the Pauline letters were known in the Churches before the death of Nero or before c 68 CE.

Whenever we find other evidence then, as is usual, we can always modify our position to be compatible WITH the NEW EVIDENCE.

This is completely acceptable and practised even in Courts.

A verdict can be OVERTURNED when NEW EVIDENCE is found---but NOT with evidence that is IMAGINED.

The copies of copies of copies that we have TODAY do NOT support EARLY Pauline letters.

Now, do NOT forget that the very Church may be the ones who gave us the copies of copies of copies.

The copies of copies of copies that most likely passed through the hands of the Church CONTRADICT the History of the Church itself.

Astonishingly, the Church appears to have COPIED the very evidence that have EXPOSED their bogus history.

It appears that the Church should NOT have copied the writings of Aristides, Justin Martyr, Theophilus of Antioch, Athenagoras, Minucius Felix, Philo, Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, Julian the Emperor, Celsus, Hippolytus and Arnobius.

The Church seems to have COPIED the evidence that have NOW utterly Destroyed their Fabricated History.

Duvduv

The question is WHO are the church? Are they the historians and propagandists? Are they obscure priests in monasteries? Are they specific powerful bishops? Who are they in history? WHO and where were the scribes?? And WHO. were the individuals who had their hands on documents over the centuries?

jakejonesiv

Dear aa5874,
Congratulations! Based on P46, you have dated the Pauline epistles to have existed within the careers of Irenaeus and Tertullian!
So the Frenchman was right after all!
Are you wanting to be an honorary Frenchman?

stephan huller

Παυλείων = (modern Greek) 'of Paul,' Pauline.

similarly

stephan huller

Ερμαίων (Migne Ερμίων) = 'of Hermas,' belonging to Hermas http://books.google.com/books?id=KvI...%CE%BD&f=false

stephan huller

ερμείων = 'of Hermes'