Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chris Weimer · 03-31-2007, 12:04 PM

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Jesus at Matthew 13: 11 In reply he said: “To YOU it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted. 12 For whoever has, more will be given him and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."

The "you" in this passage is referring explicitly to the disciples, in context. However, Matthew is moving it to a broad sense to Christians (in Matthew's sense, which I don't know if Larsguy qualifies, since I don't know his beliefs).

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This is apparent where over the four gospels you have a reference to where Jesus tells Peter that he would deny him thrice before a cock crows once and in another place thrice before a cock crows twice.

Not quite. Jesus was referring to his own words, that he was speaking in parables, and if one understood the parables, then they'd "get it", but if they didn't get it, they'd be left out. Compare with the rest of the pericope you mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Matthew 13:12

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

You see, you removed the passage above out of context. The disciples asked Jesus why he spoke in parables, and he answered him thus. It never mentioned anything about the gospels themselves being written to confuse.

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[B]ut then as he was leaving and passing by various groups of people with a girl chasing after him and accusing him, by the time he gets outside he ends up denying Jesus another three times at which point the second crowing is heard!

Where does this happen in Matthew? And you're still off on your chronology. Mark has Peter denying Jesus the third time before the cock crew a second time, while in Matthew he never mentions the first time the cock crew in between the second and third denial.

The rest of what you wrote is pure imagination.

figuer · 03-31-2007, 12:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

He does? Loki? In what way? Please support your response with evidence, if you don't mind. Everything I've read about Loki (which admittedly isn't much) is that he only played tricks on gods. Is there human interaction that I'm unfamiliar with?

It is long since I read the Eddas, so I don't remember with clarity the particulars of the different myths. What I meant was that the "psychology", the attitude, reminded me of Loki the "trickster". Wether the actions of Loki were directed at the other gods or humans is not relevant in this aspect.

Chris Weimer · 03-31-2007, 12:19 PM

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Originally Posted by figuer

It is long since I read the Eddas, so I don't remember with clarity the particulars of the different myths. What I meant was that the "psychology", the attitude, reminded me of Loki the "trickster". Wether the actions of Loki were directed at the other gods or humans is not relevant in this aspect.

I still see a difference. On one hand, God is portrayed as good, while Loki is not. That is, God is only deceiving those who aren't worthy, while Loki was being spiteful.

figuer · 03-31-2007, 12:30 PM

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Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

I still see a difference. On one hand, God is portrayed as good, while Loki is not. That is, God is only deceiving those who aren't worthy, while Loki was being spiteful.

God might receive the adjective "good", but if his actions are "tricks" then he is a "trickster". Plus I don't see how the genocidical, vengefull Yaweh can be termed "good".

What is that about "deceiving the unworthy"? So a god that is supposed to be "truth" can lie and deceive when he pleases? So there are those that are termed unworthy? Isn't this being spitefull towards some?

Ben C Smith · 03-31-2007, 12:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Can't you hear them?! Didn't you see the crowd?!?

Ah, Ren & Stimpy. A reminder that there are certain things one should never do on an electric fence.

Ben.

sharrock · 03-31-2007, 01:23 PM

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Originally Posted by Larsguy47

THE BIBLE IS SLANTED TOWARD BELIEVERS-ONLY.

You just know as God and Jesus are looking at this they are cracking up because the archaeologists are following the misleading evidence.

Larsguy47

I actually KNOW nothing of the sort. Neither do you. Fact.

In any case if anyone's having a laugh, slanted or otherwise, it's Vespasian... http://www.rodephemet.org/hudson.html

Chris Weimer · 03-31-2007, 01:39 PM

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Originally Posted by figuer

God might receive the adjective "good", but if his actions are "tricks" then he is a "trickster".

He's not playing "tricks" though, and no, merely playing "tricks" does not make one a "trickster".

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Plus I don't see how the genocidical, vengefull Yaweh can be termed "good".

Genocide is a modern concept. Before modern history, it wasn't considered "bad" to wipe out an entire enemy race. You're imposing your modern biases on what the ancients would have considered.

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What is that about "deceiving the unworthy"? So a god that is supposed to be "truth" can lie and deceive when he pleases?

That's not for me to decide.

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So there are those that are termed unworthy? Isn't this being spitefull towards some?

No. God didn't make these people unworthy, they were already unworthy, and so god fed their delusion.

Chris Weimer · 03-31-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Ah, Ren & Stimpy. A reminder that there are certain things one should never do on an electric fence.

Ben.

Do you have a walrus protector?

...

Call the poliiiice!

JoeWallack · 03-31-2007, 02:31 PM

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Originally Posted by Larsguy47

It seems also apparent God thinks ahead, likely making sure the Jews during the post-Exodus Period down to the time of Solomon left very little evidence of themselves for modern archaeologists to find, likely knowing that group would primarily be doubters and anti-Biblicalists. The archaeologists just can't believe the Jews picked up after themselves or completely destroyed evidence of themselves for that period, giving the nonbelievers a false sense of comfort level in not believing other pats of the Bible that are more confirmed archaeologically, like the palaces built by Solomon c. 910-870BCE as confirmed by archaeology.

You just know as God and Jesus are looking at this they are cracking up because the archaeologists are following the misleading evidence.

JW:
Yes, this was also Peewee Herman's punchline, "I meant to do that." Come to think of it, just like the Christian god, Peewee also preferred to work with himself.

Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

Larsguy47 · 03-31-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

If the Bible was written to confuse unbelievers, it would seem that not a few believers have been caught in the net, as well.

Ben.

Yes, but once they hear the correct explanation then their confusion is over.

Larsguy47

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