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Old 04-12-2012, 04:44 AM   #31
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Agnostics do not believe that miracles exist really.
Erm, agnostics are, erm, agnostic about whether miracles exist really. Surely?

Only atheists are certain that miracles never happen. Nowhere. Not anywhere in the universe, in all space and time, even the ones that don't have video-cameras pointing at them.

A small point, but let's keep our language clear.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
Not sure I buy this Roger.

I think it might be more correct to say that Atheists will tend to view an explanation of miracle as the least likely possible explanation for any given event.
So what is the 'logic'? That there cannot be a deity, so there cannot be miracles? Or, that there cannot be miracles, so there cannot be a deity?
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:57 AM   #32
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Not sure I buy this Roger.

I think it might be more correct to say that Atheists will tend to view an explanation of miracle as the least likely possible explanation for any given event.
So what is the 'logic'? That there cannot be a deity, so there cannot be miracles? Or, that there cannot be miracles, so there cannot be a deity?
Neither, actually.

As I said, a miracle is, kind of by definition, the least likely explanation for any event.

I don't recall saying anything about a deity as my point would seem to stand whether any deity exists or not.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:58 AM   #33
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If Miracles can happen then the truth cannot be known.

If Miracles can happen then history is irrelevant.

If Miracles can happen no statement about any event can be shown to be true or false.

Examine the following statement: I am alive but I have NO heart, no lungs, no brains, no stomach, no bones and was RAISED from the dead.

Once miracles can happen then NO Miracle Believer can demonstrate that MY statement is false.

In effect, people who believe in Miracles cannot determine the Truth and cannot determine the Past.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:07 AM   #34
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Not sure I buy this Roger.

I think it might be more correct to say that Atheists will tend to view an explanation of miracle as the least likely possible explanation for any given event.
So what is the 'logic'? That there cannot be a deity, so there cannot be miracles? Or, that there cannot be miracles, so there cannot be a deity?
Neither, actually.
It must be one, or the other. Do people become atheists (or even Atheists, whatever they are) because miracles cannot occur, or because deity cannot exist?

Circularity reigns, in Atheist Land.

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As I said, a miracle is, kind of by definition, the least likely explanation for any event.
It's to be expected, if there is a creator, who wishes to make himself known.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:24 AM   #35
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It's to be expected, if there is a creator, who wishes to make himself known.
Once miracles can happen then your statement cannot be proven to be true. Miracles make logical deductions useless.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:29 AM   #36
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Neither, actually.
It must be one, or the other. Do people become atheists (or even Atheists, whatever they are) because miracles cannot occur, or because deity cannot exist?

Circularity reigns, in Atheist Land.
No, you simply continue with your false dilemmas.

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As I said, a miracle is, kind of by definition, the least likely explanation for any event.
It's to be expected, if there is a creator, who wishes to make himself known.
Perhaps, although irrelevant when it comes to positing a miracle as the explanation for any specific event.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:37 AM   #37
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It's to be expected, if there is a creator, who wishes to make himself known.
I prefer the upfront and mature way we humans let each other know of our existence... a cheerful "hello" and a firm handshake.

Eye contact is also very important.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:39 AM   #38
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Neither, actually.
It must be one, or the other. Do people become atheists (or even Atheists, whatever they are) because miracles cannot occur, or because deity cannot exist?

Circularity reigns, in Atheist Land.
No, you simply continue with your false dilemmas.
More circularity. Prove something. Anything.

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As I said, a miracle is, kind of by definition, the least likely explanation for any event.
It's to be expected, if there is a creator, who wishes to make himself known.
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Perhaps
Amazing.

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although irrelevant when it comes to positing a miracle as the explanation for any specific event.
More half-baked, ludicrous circularity.

To be ignored, evidently.

Atheism, :tombstone:
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:40 AM   #39
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It's to be expected, if there is a creator, who wishes to make himself known.
I prefer the upfront and mature way we humans let each other know of our existence... a cheerful "hello" and a firm handshake.
But a glass or two of convivial water turned wine would not be refused, either.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:41 AM   #40
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No, you simply continue with your false dilemmas.
More circularity. Prove something. Anything.




Amazing.

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although irrelevant when it comes to positing a miracle as the explanation for any specific event.
More half-baked, ludicrous circularity.

To be ignored, evidently.

Atheism, :tombstone:
I have the distinct impression that you do not know what the term "circularity" actually means.

Regardless, as you have said nothing that actually addresses what I have written, I suppose you do, in fact, agree.
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