Mindsword

Aimee
When Jesus ressurected, it was the proof that we could trust him. He was who He said He was.

Miku
but wheres the proof of the ressurrection?

Miku
yes i went there lol

Aimee
Don't ask us. Our belief is based on faith. If you really want to know, do your own homework. http://toptenproofs.com/article_resurrection.php http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpJzWF4lnG0

Miku
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpJzWF4lnG0
body gone + bible says jesus everywhere = physical proof of ressurrection? has national geographic been alerted?

from first link:
"As Christians however, the physical resurrection of Jesus is crucial to our faith"

no dogmas are crucial to my faith. except for truth, which is not a belief or a dogma it is simply a status.. and i dont mean mine or your truth i mean the universal one, one that can be measured & recorded & and using the bible as a 'source' is not really reliable unless you see talking bushes, spaceships, talking devil snakes, selling your daughters to slavery, dividing the sea etcetc. as normal everyday things. the fact that the bible says jesus did this or that doesnt prove jesus did this or that, it just proves that the bible exists and that someone prolly wrote it.

so nop sorry.. its all circumstancial and can basically mean anything u interpret it as.. when a person dies famously people will say all sorts of crazy shit, and rumors will appear.. (see? thats proof it didnt happen! - no, not really. see what i mean?) its normal. most of the new testament was written decades after jesus' death, and there was no media back then.. if he really wanted to prove it he'd be back now, if he could and didnt, he prolly didnt care that much anyway, OR he propably doesnt need u to believe so hard in something that cant be proven.. i mean he's jesus, he'll prolly manage, and im also sure that he approves 100% of the free will God gave you. after all God gave it to you. bottom line, i dont know, i will never know, prolly not until im dead, i wont pretend that i know, and i certainly wont say i "believe" anything if i dont know.. i can have suspicions, or also "believe" (not the religious conviction type, but the personal leaning towards, gutfeeling type) in something without it becoming a dogma i slavishly have to follow so i wont feel out of touch with myself, ignoring all the physical evidence.. i dont think people can levitate, move shit with their minds (except metaphorically) and/or move any physical boundries, death being one without help of technology. i have pondered the ancient astronaut theory (which actually seems way more viable than the biblical/standard version) which would also make some of the things possible, but then again ive never seen aliens either, so i dont "believe" believe in them either but i wouldnt really be surprised of anything anymore.

it couldve happened (aliens, god came down) or it didnt (much more propable), but i dont know. anything based on faith alone is nothing worth believing in. it is blind and blindness is the cause for 99% of the worlds spiritual illness.

also i am not an atheist, nor a satanist. im an agnostic.

Aimee
Like I said, it's about faith. If you don't have the faith to believe it, then you won't have salvation but if you are a learner, which I believe that you are, look into it. Read what the Bible has to say about it. If it doesn't touch you... it doesn't.

Miku
faith in something can be good, faith alone for the sake of faith , without anything else, is not worth having. im not saying throw jesus in the dungeon im saying take things with a pinch of salt, and try reading something different than the bible..

i liked proverbs. and the one after that, forgot the name (also by salomo). and ofc revelations mainly for the epic psychedellic and abstract rantings of john in his old paranoid days, which of course jehovas witnesses have taken literally.

Miku
but if it REALLY was that important wouldnt jesus leave us with something more than just word of mouth to take it or leave it? would he really do that do us? "you will believe this! i will not leave a single piece of evidence just to confuse you, but those who read between the lines will go straight 2 torment!"

or is his message more important than what happened when and where, or if evolution is true or not?

Aimee
"Having faith alone for the sake of faith" is your opinion. Also, we don't have faith in everything or just anything. It's much more significant than that. I can't speak for everyone but I surely study other things. In fact I study Neuroscience on a regular basis and many other things. I have no scientific reason to believe in God but I don't need to. It's my choice. His name is Solomon BTW. Also, I don't see the Bible as a buffet, taking what I like and disregarding what I don't. I believe in the whole Bible and God as He is.
about an hour ago · Like
Aimee Omoiyari Colbert Jesus himself says that blessed are those that believe without seeing. You can only believe what you see and that is your choice.
about an hour ago · Like
Aimee Omoiyari Colbert Even if there were no hell or heaven, I would still follow Jesus because of who he is period.

Miku
"His name is Solomon BTW." - In which translation?
"I believe in the whole Bible and God as He is." - In which translation?

"Even if there were no hell or heaven, I would still follow Jesus because of who he is period. "

- I didnt say stop following jesus. Also i said im not an atheist. But answer this: Are u following who he is, or who someone said he was?

Miku
also i believe his name was שְׁלֹמֹה
i think its pronounced/westernized "shelomo" or "shalomo"

Aimee
I don't simply believe based on the Bible alone. When you read the Bible and put it into practice you begin to see for yourself. God manifests his presence in many ways, which is revealed to the individual. I didn't say that you were an Atheist either. I follow who he is through the scripture and in my life. When you receive the word in your heart, it becomes alive but no one adequately explain this. It's like trying to describe the sensation of orgasm to a virgin. You won't really get it until you experience it for yourself. I don't like to do other people's homework. When people ask me about God with the intent to learn from me, I answer but my job isn't to convince people to believe. I can't. That is their deicsion. When I had questions, I researched and I read the Bible... prayer. You have to do that for yourself if you are that is, genuwinely interested. If not, don't attempt to sway me. I accept information and knowledge but I don't like to be tested or aggitated.

Miku
im not trying to be an asshole about it,its just how i come off lol (asbergers). ive read a whole lot of the bible, and alot of its good and ive done a HEAP of research, day and days consumed with bisarre hebrew and greek translations/sources and even gnostic and pre-muslim sources, but as with alot of books they have some shady parts and ups and downs.. and a whole lot of contradictions. but the parts that dont contradict actually corresponds well to f.ex hinduism, islam and shamanism, (thats how i double check) im not a fan of the belief that the entirety of Gods 'extreme omnipotence and everythingness' can be put into one really old greek/hebrew book.. if it would it wouldnt need 3000 translations) if anything it should be on the internet, but havent found it there either. only bits and pieces.

the gods simply dont intend for us to know or accept anything blindly. wisdom, knowledge & truth was salomons message, love, wisdom and truth was jesus', and i dont know anything about salomon really, but those were smart words. not everything they said was equally brilliant tho, so i dont agree with it, that doesnt mean i dont have all respect for them or that i dont have a mutual connection to them, or dont believe in God, im just not gonna rule out any possibilities or stop looking for alternative explanations. thats when u close your mind. and after all, what is belief without temptation? effortless.

as the Buddha would say; if it doesnt correspond with your own heart completely 100% dont believe it even if it was me who said it. peace!

Aimee
I understand about the Asbergers thing. The translations are there to spread it to all people and make it relevant to the current lingo, that way people can understand it better. It didn't HAVE TO BE TRANSLATED that many ways but it was as a courtesy to others. "What's belief without temptation" that's why I said, though I can't speak for everyone, I don't believe in Jesus simply because that is what I was taught. As for Buddhas quote, I will say "Who can know the heart? It is treacherous" That's in the Bible and it means that your heart will deceive you. To say if it doesn't agree with your heart don't believe it, is totally subjective. There are evil people in this world and sick people... their "hearts" (minds) are twisted. They won't agree with what is morally right. That's a false statement.

Miku
it is true that the heart is "treacherous" but i dont think they meant that in the way u mean (see again the bible is interpretable in any direction) they didnt have psychology and didnt know about the subconcsious level, and yeah the heart can become a little twisted, but it still knows whats true, thats the only way a person can be judged.. if people just have opposing views that they REALLY believe they cant really be judged for it, because thats what they meant was the good thing to do. but most people (the twisted ones) generally tend to ignore this 'gut feeling' i know i have many times and it caused all sorts of trouble, so even if i may be an old bitter evil little fuck im still AWARE that im an old bitter evil little fuck and will act accordingly.. also noone is "not aware" that killing and raping infants and robbing grandmothers is bad, twisted people just dont give a cough, so maybe they wont openly agree with the ethical philosophy but thats just some cunning shit they say, if you have the intellectual capacity to know that 2+2=4 then u also know the basic nature of good/bad , because of human instinct as a social pack animal.

btw did u know the old testament forbids eating pork? havent touched it in years. neither should anyone, that stuff is dirty! btw im really tired, imma try to get some sleep, but if that fails ill be back to bother you as long as (if) you feel like it! peace...................

Aimee
Yes, eating pork is bad for you. So is eating lots of sugar, being a glutten, and alcoholism.... God teaches through the Gospel that all of these things should be considered. Science can now varify that all of these things are true. Also, we are not bound by the old testament but you have to read the Bible thoroughly to know that. Study hard.... really hard.

Aimee
You're right that no one is unaware but the Bible teaches that there is a way that men reason with themselves and believe that they are right within their own minds despite that.... that is why the Bible says that even those who do not know anything of God or the Bible will be judged by their conscience.

Aimee
I don't mind discussing it at all. Just present questions.... sincere questions.... not questions in an attempt to embarrass me. I don't have time for that. I can answer your questions and I'd love to but just check yourself first or you'll have to ask someone else.

Toto

What's wrong with linking to a site that offers to sell you the Top Ten proofs of the Resurrection for a mere $169, marked down from $250?

Everything. Just everything.

Mindsword

i need u to be more specific and not so upront lol, thats what got me into trouble in the first place

Toto

I need you to write full sentences with capitalization. That Facebook discussion is unreadable.

Or read Richard Carrier: Why I Don't Buy the Resurrection Story

la70119

Actually the purchaser gets 13 other topics as part of a bundle for that price, but still... :angry: (at hucksterism)

Huon

•Answering the “Davinci Code” claims, plus a whole lot more…

This point is worth 16.9 $, isn't it ?

The other points have been questioned here many times.

Mindsword, if you are really an agnostic, you should be very suspicious about the resurrection. Agnostics do not believe that miracles exist really.

sotto voce

That's what is wrong. Errors are usually in the first thing one reads.

The authentic gospel message is that Jesus died for one's sins. If one does not agree that one has sinned, if one does not care if one has, then one simply ignores the message. If one agrees that one has sinned, if one cares that one has sinned, one takes the matter further. There's no formal proof required or supplied.

Roger Pearse

Erm, agnostics are, erm, agnostic about whether miracles exist really. Surely?

Only atheists are certain that miracles never happen. Nowhere. Not anywhere in the universe, in all space and time, even the ones that don't have video-cameras pointing at them.

A small point, but let's keep our language clear.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

sotto voce

Agnostics, like believers, admit that they do not know. Atheists don't. Atheists are like Calvinists. They know what cannot be known.

Tom Sawyer

No we don't. We just make the only rational assumption.