ARISCE

Can anyone explain Psalm 137 verse 9 to me. Anyone?

Alethias

Psalm 137 is a lament of the Babylonian Captivity of the Jews. It is a natural part of the expression of grief to wish for ill to befall your enemies. In the height of emotion in such a situation, one comes up with the worst possible ill to befall ones enemies. Psalm 137:9 is the author coming up with the worst possible evil he can imagine and wishing it upon his enemies, The "Daughter of Babylon".

This is only problematic if you assume that this is god-breathed and that the god of Israel is somehow justifying the killing of innocents. I don't make that assumption since I'm utterly convinced that there is no such thing as a god, so without that assumption the verse makes sense as a natural, albeit horrific, expression of grief.

SoT

seebs

The entirety of Psalms is specifically credited to human authors expressing their own views.

It is interesting to compare that with Jeremiah 29:

The Book of the Prophet Jeremiah, Chapter 29, Verse 7
And seek the peace of the city whither I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the LORD for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace.

It appears that the whole baby-dashing thing was an innovation of the local franchise, not really a policy from the central office.

Quetzalcoatl

It is also interesting to compare this to: Hosea 13

13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
13:5 I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought.
13:6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
13:7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
13:8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.
<snip>

13:15 Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels.
13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up

More franchising I guess.

Also instead of cherry picking particular verses examine the rest of the chapter.

Jerimiah 29: 17, 18

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will send upon them the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, and will make them like vile figs, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.

And I will persecute them with the sword, with the famine, and with the pestilence, and will deliver them to be removed to all the kingdoms of the earth, to be a curse, and an astonishment, and an hissing, and a reproach, among all the nations whither I have driven them:

Helpmabob

Hi ARISCE - That is what they used to do to each other in days of war (prior to nuclear weapons becoming available) to avoid their enemies growing strong and fighting back. But Jesus teaches us a new way of doing things: "You have heard that people used to say, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you, Do not fight against evil. If someone hits you on the right side of your face, let him hit you on the other side also" (Matthew 5:38-39).

FarmMama

This is a good question for BC&H

Chili

That's rather easy to do ARISCE. The daughter of Babylon is the lesser serpent who presides over the tree of Knolwdge. She is called Eve in Gen 3 who's offspring is tormented by the mature fruits of the greater serpent in the tree of Life to which these bastard children can not be raised (so to speak), to say that they are a collection of immature thoughts (data we call it) that cannot be tied down in the Tree of Life where they will find rest in our soul.

They give us a headache and a good one, a migrane, we call it, that will not leave us until we smash 'm on the same rocks whence they came (unless we insist on walking knee-deep through stone for life).

gregor

Helpma

Jesus was no sissy. God may only have ordered smashing children and forced abortions in the OT, but Jesus trumps God's wrath. OT punishment was is limited to this world. Jesus calls down eternal (or at least a lifetime of) torture in a lake of fire. Given the two, I'll take the temporary torture.

ARISCE

Thanks all. Will ask same question in BC&H. But no verse this time.

Alethias

Well, ARISCE, that happened when FarmMama moved this thread to BC&H, so no need :wave: And the Biblical Criticism & History Forum is a great place to use verses.

SoT