Stumpjumper

How about Madonna's hubby's the "72 Names of God." Going from a nun to an atheist requires much more than reading a book, btw.

Bilbato

Yeah, it does. Which is why she studied theology and history... cuz she was a nun, and she kept feeling like many of us deconverts here did. Empty... we would strive and strive to become closer to god, and there was nothing there, just emptiness.

Stumpjumper

Allright Bibato

I skimmed amazon reviews of The History of God and it sounds like a rehash of many of the books I've read in the past. El-shaddai could mean anything you want depending on how you translate shaddai. That is the problem with most of the books that try to show the "true" origin of certain religions. However, I have found that within every conspiracy theory there is a grain of truth (usually buried deep within).

The History of God seems like Frued's Moses and Monotheism , which I read a good 10 years ago in college. Which means it= some truth, mostly BS. But, she did get some good reviews so I might look a little further.

Peace

Stumpjumper

Just some housekeeping.

Shaddai was how Job addressed God. YHWH was a non-pronounced way of addressing God to the Israelites whereas El-Shaddai and El-ohim were forms of pronouncing God's name. The contradictions are caused by the literary YHWH and the spoken forms.

IsItJustMe

Sounds to me like the book you quote is of the view that the Israelites at one time were polytheists, as demonstrated by the development of Yahweh from the Israelites particular God to the single, universal God. Once you accept that Al Shaddai was a distinct god from Yahweh, it becomes less important whether Al Shaddai was God of the Mountain or God of the many breasts (two possible translations). He wasn't Yahweh, anyway.

I had always thought that this development took place while they were in Babylon under the influence of the Zoroastrians, but Most Reverend John Spong, in his book "Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism" (an excellent read for those not well versed in Biblical scholarship) seems to say that it was Moses who set them on this path, and that he was a participant in a reasonably well-documented Egyptian movement toward monotheism.

McD

Jesuslovesyou apparently thought that CS Lewis was some atheist making fun of Jesus by calling him a liar and a lunatic :rolling:

Stumpjumper

Maybe. There were (and are obviously) different concepts of a monotheistic God. The gross contradiction enters when one attempts to equate the different views of the monotheistic God of Abram and the Pagan gods.

I would probably agree with Spong but I have not read his book. Too many books, so little time. I do not believe that the development took place in Babylon, however. There is too much evidence for an earlier Israelite existence than T. Thompson would like to admit.

newtype_alpha

I've been reading some on this topic lately myself. Alot of archeological evidence does seem to suggest that the Hebrews practiced polytheism fairly regularly and openly before the Babylon captivity. The Torah, having been written by the Levitical priesthood during the Exile, apparently alluded to this fact as the reason for their plight at the time. Literary references include instances of certain behaviors for which various individuals were very severely punished by Yahweh as a way of saying "Every time people did A B and C, God afflicted them with X, Y and Z. Our nation was destroyed because of too much A B and C. Therefore, never do those things again!"

I can probably drag up a few examples but I don't feel like looking them up at the moment.

Stumpjumper

What makes you so sure that the Torah was written during the Babylonian exile?

Just curious.

newtype_alpha

Primarily I thought that was just common knowledge, but there's some evidence to support it. Superficially, the Torah appears to borrow some Babylonian social and legal attitudes, particularly God's wish that the laws of the Torah would cause all of mankind to wonder at the wisdom and fairness of their laws (don't remember the exact wording). Other archeological evidence suggests that polytheistic worship was probably considered acceptable or normal by even members of the state right up until shortly before or during the Babylonian captivity. Numerous idols, altars and inscriptions found throughout Israel suggest as much, there have even been a few that suggest that Yaweh was worshipped alongside other gods, possibly even a consort as recently as 7th centry BC.

According to somescholars, and some things I've seen myself that would suggest the same, most of the books of the Torah probably existed as oral traditions or provincial regulations in some form or another before they were canonized by the priesthood, after an extensive editing process to make sure the final product actually said what they wanted it to say. Much of the writing of the Torah appears to be after-the-fact historical revisionism, for political/nationalistic purposes.