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11-22-2004, 03:58 PM | #1 |
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Jesus did NOT teach Hell
This chart will not come through for easy reading but there are MANY English Bible translations without the word Hell from cover to cover. The Hebrew and Greek does NOT contain the teaching of Hell of everlasting punishment. There's a ton of info on this at:
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html Try "The Bible Hell" or "The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment." Hell is NOT in the original languages of the Bible. It was added by Roman Catholicism which added a host of nonsense to the original teachings of Christ. “Hell� as Recorded in the Leading Bible Translations Number of times "Hell" appears in the text in English Bible Translations Bible Translations Old Testament New Testament Total "Authorized" King James Version 31 23 54 New King James Version 19 13 32 New Living Translation 2 17 19 American Standard Version 0 13 13 New American Standard Bible 0 13 13 Revised Standard Version 0 12 12 New Revised Standard Version 0 12 12 Revised English Bible 0 13 13 Amplified 0 13 13 New International Version (best-selling English Bible) 0 14 14 Darby 0 12 12 New Century Version 0 12 12 Scarlett's N.T. 1798 0 0 The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823) 0 0 Young's Literal Translation (1891) 0 0 0 Twentieth Century New Testament (1900) 0 0 Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902) 0 0 0 Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903) 0 0 0 Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903) 0 0 Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917) 0 0 Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914) 0 0 Centenary Translation (Helen B. Montgomery, 1924) 0 0 The People’s New Covenant (Overbury, 1925) 0 0 Hanson’s New Covenant (1884) 0 0 Western N.T. (1926) 0 0 NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958) 0 0 Concordant Literal NT (1983) 0 0 The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938) 0 0 Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942) 0 0 New American Bible (1970 0 0 0 Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976) 0 0 0 Tanakh, The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985) 0 0 The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980) 0 0 Christian Bible (1991) 0 0 0 World English Bible (in progress) 0 0 0 Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha [NT Only] 0 0 The Original Bible Project (Dr. Tabor, still in translation) 0 0 0 A Critical Paraphrase of the N.T. (Vincent T. Roth, 1960) 0 0 The Holy Bible, A New Translation (James Moffatt, 1922) 0 0 0 William’s New Testament (Charles B. Williams, 1937) 0 0 The Original New Testament (1985, Hugh J. Schonfield) 0 0 Complete Jewish Bible (David H. Stern, 1998, N.T. & O.T.) 0 0 0 The Bible (Isaac Leeser, 1905, Old Testament) 0 0 New Testament Recovery Version (1991) 0 0 The Power New Testament (Morford, 1998) 0 0 Translation of the N.T. (W. B. Godbey) 0 0 The Scriptures (1998) 0 0 0 Greek/English Interlinears Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975) 0 0 Interlinear NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Gr. and English (1993) 0 0 |
11-22-2004, 04:08 PM | #2 | |||||||||||||||||
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It seems God was pretty powerless to keep things intact against the mighty Roman Empire, No? Sorry but it is in the original CONTEXT. Im not interested in this debate anymore. Too much effort and too many folks making to many reason up about how Jesus didnt teach it. I trust that God got his word to us as He wanted it. You get the standard response tho ------------------- HELL IS NOT THE GRAVE There are at least two words in the NT for grave One is the common grave, the other is rendered as hell or hades If it meant just death and being put into the grave, Im sure they would have left it at that Heres the one that isnt just the common grave Quote:
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heres the one that is the common grave Quote:
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Not even toying with the language can get one out of this one If they had meant wed end up in a tomb to stay, then there was no reasong to go beyond just Taphos or to add all the many desciptions of eternal punishment GEHENNA Some argue that Jesus is talking about the valley of Himnon and nothing more. That it wont be eternal Quote:
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Taking this in context with the following shows us what will be ETERNAL PUNISHMENT Some like to argue that the greek says that those there will only be there for an ''age'' becuase of the greek Here we have the sheeps and the goats going into their respcctive destinies. Quote:
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THAT word in THAT passage means no such thing HERE is the word you are looking for and keep relying on. Quote:
BOTH timeframes given are ''everlasting'' PUNISHMENT in that passage is just that Quote:
EVERLASTING CORRECTION we see these passages about punishment Quote:
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HEBREW OLAM (AGE/EVERLASTING) Some argue that the word ''olam'' is rendered incorrectly into the greek and then into english and that it SHOULD be closer to ''aion'' (age) instead of "aionios"(perpetual) The Hebrew olam is this Quote:
One has to take context into account at this point Not just the context of hell in the immediate passage, but look to all scipture and see what the pattern is Here again, Jesus speaks about this place Gehenna, the valley of Himnon Quote:
THIS time the fire wont go out THIS time, the worms wont die It will be eternal Taking that and other passages on punishment, such as; Quote:
PASSAGES ON HELL Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever gets angry with his brother without cause will be liable to the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Empty-head!' will be liable to the council. But whoever says, ' fool!' will be liable to the fiery hell. Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is better for you that one of your members be lost, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is better for you that one of your members be lost, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. Mat 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both the soul and the body in hell. Mat 18:8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut them off and cast them from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, than having two hands or two feet, to be thrown into the eternal fire. Mat 18:9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, than having two eyes, to be thrown into the fiery hell. Mat 23:33 Serpents! Brood of vipers! How shall you escape from the condemnation of hell? Mar 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It would be better for you to enter into life maimed, than to enter having two hands, to go into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- Mar 9:44 where 'Their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.' Mar 9:45 "And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It would be better for you to enter into life lame, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched-- Mar 9:46 where 'Their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.' Mar 9:47 "And if your eye causes you to stumble, cast it out. It would be better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into the fiery hell, Mar 9:48 where 'Their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.' Luk 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who after He kills, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! Jam 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. Thus the tongue is set among our members, as that which defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. Luk 16:22 And it came to pass that the beggar died, and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. Luk 16:23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in his bosom. Luk 16:24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am suffering in this flame.' Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened the books. And another Book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged by the things having been written in the books, according to their works. Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to their works. Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death, the Lake of Fire. Rev 20:15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire. Mat 13:36 Then having dismissed the crowds, Jesus went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field." Mat 13:37 He answered and said to them: "He that sows the good seed is the Son of Man. Mat 13:38 And the field is the world, and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the evil one. Mat 13:39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Mat 13:40 Therefore just as the tares are gathered and burned with fire, thus it will be at the end of this age. Mat 13:41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who work iniquity, Mat 13:42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Luk 13:24 Strive to enter through the narrow gate, because many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. Luk 13:25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and answering He will say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from.' Luk 13:26 Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' Luk 13:27 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' Luk 13:28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being cast out. Rev 19:20 Then the Beast was apprehended, and with him the False Prophet who had performed the signs before him, by which he had deceived those who received the mark of the Beast and those who worshipped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 20:10 EMTV And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone where also the Beast and the False Prophet are. And they shall be tormented day and night forever and ever. Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death, the Lake of Fire. Rev 20:15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire. Mat 25:31 "And when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then will He sit upon His glorious throne. Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. Mat 25:33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on His left. Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Mat 25:46 "And these shall go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." |
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11-22-2004, 07:48 PM | #3 |
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Peace to you.
Hell is a punishment that only can happen because we make it happen, it is something that is there. If just for an example the electrician is working in our house and he warned us to stay away and we ignore his warning than we get electrocuted that is not his fault, we ignore him. This apply with hell, God does not do it for fun nor He want too, it is just there. Today there are people who can walk on fire, does not this a good picture for us to ponder?. If I were place in the fire, within minutes I will burn to death. If this is hell like than it is good price to trade for dacades of good life ignoring God, we don't have reason to obey anyone, God included as it is worthless threat. So does not God know better than us? Hell and heaven are not eternal, they can't be, but it means nothing to us, If He want he can erase me from the book of life and I am content. He does what he want, the life we have today is something that no one can measure in price, how much is this life worth? Isn't time to reflect for what we have today, now, just by looking in this life? I know so much in my age, I have the good and the bad life. I look back and retrace my life all the way to where when I was in kindy (yes I rembember), the teachers, friends, uncles, cousins, neighbours, the friendship, the fist fight and of course the girl chasing. These are great memories and the only one who gave this to us is the one that deserves our thanks beyond thanking formality, it is beyond measure, but people for some reason don't look that way. If we know this gift it will make us easier to understand God with all the goodness he gave it to us and all of this have purpose. Have you ever give a thought why he did this? Did he do it for nothing or was it just an accident (chance)?. But most people can't reach that far, the mind just unable to reach it. Here is the job of the Prophets, they explained it with the way people understand in their era, they could not convey it beyond their ability otherwise it would overload them. "I have yet manything to say unto you, but you can't bare them now--" Do you understand him better now? I only hope. Hell and heaven exist beyond human understanding and that what make us doubtfull, but they are there not as we imagine it. Hell and heaven is something that do not destroy their tennant except when God wills it, in our simple understanding and simple word--eternal. But it is better off if we reflect with what we have, think hard about this very short life. Once we do that and we get the mature understanding it will be easier when we bow down or kneel or even standing in private. Peace to you all. ------------ And when your Lord proclaimed: If ye give thanks, I will give you more; but if ye are thankless, lo! My punishment is dire. |
11-22-2004, 07:53 PM | #4 |
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Alrighty, now for my favorite unbeliever response:
"Hell is not a lake of fires, hell is a fake of liars." |
11-22-2004, 08:02 PM | #5 | |
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11-22-2004, 08:50 PM | #6 | |
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I see honesty more than fake, but I live in this kind of world in real life myself, so that is quite normal for me. We learn always in life, if not today than maybe some informations from somewhere some other time. I see people changed in no time, from one side to any side that no one even think of, but that happened in life and I saw this myself. That is why I am reluctant to condemn other people or debating except exchange views. If I do condemn today and than he change it will take me forever to remedy this situation as life is friendship, for me though, beside hell is not mine. Have fun. |
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11-22-2004, 09:49 PM | #7 |
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Tentmaker to folower of Christ
So which translation is the one that God got it right in? Tell me which one you believe is the infallible "word of God" and I'll show you a dozen quick places relating to foudational doctrines in which other major translations differ. You obviously haven't spent too much time comparing translations or studying Hebrew and Greek Texts. You're one of those who swallow every lie your preacher passes on. Been there, done that. But no more. Hope you wise up too. So what's your brew, er Bible translation?
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11-22-2004, 10:37 PM | #8 |
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Good point smithy. I see more honest people here than anywhere. Wrong, but honest about it, lol.
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11-23-2004, 03:44 AM | #9 |
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You should check out this article. It might change your perspective on hell.
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11-23-2004, 06:17 AM | #10 | |
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Ive no intention of reading all that, but was the guy pushing universalism ? If so, it blows my mind how much explaination has to be used in order to do away with what Jesus actaully said. |
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