Freethought & Rationalism Archive

offa · 01-01-2004, 07:41 PM

godfry n. glad quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by offa
I heard on radio the other day that George Washington was not our first president and that he was about the fourth.
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Sir, your reply is correct, as far as I am concerned. And I do appreciate your follow up. What I was trying to say is about language. Do not take things for granted, even if my (mute) point is contrary. Let's check it out.

Thanks.

But, that is what I heard on somebody else's radio. I just thought that I should reply to the infidels.

My reasoning is we must look on the other side. If everybody agreed with everybody else, then we would have an Animal farm

diana · 01-01-2004, 07:50 PM

All animals are created equal. But some are more equal than others.

d

Amaleq13 · 01-01-2004, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by diana
All animals are created equal. But some are more equal than others.

All hail the opposable thumb!

Magus55 · 01-01-2004, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tracer
I belong to a fourth camp:

4. Jesus really existed, buit he was a cult leader like David Koresh, one of several self-proclaimed "Christs" who cashed in on a kind of "messiah fever" prevalent in Israel during the mid-1st century C.E.. The Jewish splinter-cult of Jesus would have faded into historical obscurity had it not been for Paul, who (A) roamed around establishing new "branch chruches" for the cult, and (B) allowed gentiles to become cult members.

Now why would Paul do that, when he spent his life persecuting Christians? Why would Paul suddenly believe this fake self-proclaimed Christ, so much so as to change his life ( stopped persecuting Christians and followed Jesus' teachings), and eventually gave his life to support that false messiah?

Magus55 · 01-01-2004, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NOGO
I would suggest this as a forth camp.

Different books of the New Testament speak of different kinds of Jesus Christs. In some cases he is a man, in another case he is a spirit possessing a man and in still other cases he is a spirit with no man. Take you pick.

Actually, He is a man and God in every book.

Apikorus · 01-01-2004, 09:51 PM

Aside from his own say-so, just how do we know that Paul "persecuted Christians"? One could certainly build a case that this admission is self-serving. That is, by identifying himself as a former tormentor now turned faithful servant of Jesus, Paul is saying "look, anyone can become a Christian; indeed I used to persecute them, but then my life was changed." Is there any other evidence to corroborate Paul's claim?

mike_decock · 01-01-2004, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Apikorus
One could certainly build a case that this admission is self-serving. That is, by identifying himself as a former tormentor now turned faithful servant of Jesus, Paul is saying "look, anyone can become a Christian; indeed I used to persecute them, but then my life was changed."

Paul, the first century Mike Warnke.

-Mike...

Phineas Flapdoodle · 01-01-2004, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by diana
If y'all check the link I gave on the first page to Peter Kirby's review of the different positions, you'll see there are, technically, far more than three camps.

d

yes, I know of Peter's "camps" but your 3 are leaner and more meaningful to ME, as one who will never be inclined to do what Peter has done (all that mythical God/Jesus reading would give me an aneurysm, I'm quite sure!!) - hey Diana, please let me know when you have decided whether your #2 or #3 is absolutely true - thanks! I would appreciate it very much. Besides, the scope of what I just now asked of you, is REALLY all that I plan to care about, for a long time, ok? #2 or #3, and not much more. Understand? Think that day will come - BTW?

happy new year to you too!
Stephen

Toto · 01-01-2004, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Apikorus
. . . Is there any other evidence to corroborate Paul's claim?

No other evidence that has any degree of reliability. Paul makes some fairly vague references to persecuting Christians.

Quote:

Galatians 1:13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.

. . .

21 Later I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22 I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only heard the report: "The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy."

Which raises the question, of course, if Paul had persecuted these churches so vigorously, why was he personally unknown?

Acts of the Apostles, which cannot be shown to be other than a work of fiction, expands on this and has Paul consent to Stephen being stoned, and then going off to Damascus to hunt down Christians and throw them into jail.

The whole story is very improbable.

Amaleq13 · 01-02-2004, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Actually, He is a man and God in every book.

Please provide specific evidence to support this assertion. One verse supporting each claim from every book is what is required to turn this from an unsubstantiated assertion into a reasoned conclusion.

Surely these atheistic curs will bow down before me if I am able to extract a reasoned argument from thee!

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01-01-2004, 07:41 PM	#41
offa Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Monroeville, Ohio, USA Posts: 440	godfry n. glad quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by offa I heard on radio the other day that George Washington was not our first president and that he was about the fourth. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sir, your reply is correct, as far as I am concerned. And I do appreciate your follow up. What I was trying to say is about language. Do not take things for granted, even if my (mute) point is contrary. Let's check it out. Thanks. But, that is what I heard on somebody else's radio. I just thought that I should reply to the infidels. My reasoning is we must look on the other side. If everybody agreed with everybody else, then we would have an Animal farm

01-01-2004, 07:50 PM	#42
diana Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 6,471	All animals are created equal. But some are more equal than others. d

01-01-2004, 09:51 PM	#46
Apikorus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,396	Aside from his own say-so, just how do we know that Paul "persecuted Christians"? One could certainly build a case that this admission is self-serving. That is, by identifying himself as a former tormentor now turned faithful servant of Jesus, Paul is saying "look, anyone can become a Christian; indeed I used to persecute them, but then my life was changed." Is there any other evidence to corroborate Paul's claim?

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