Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ex-xian · 11-16-2003, 01:18 AM

I was just wondering how the apologists deal with this one.

In Matthew the bible says that Jesus couldn't heal everyone in a city because of their unbelief. But in Acts, Peter (I think) preaches and says that Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil.

I never really thought about his when I was a fundy, and the thought just popped into my head the other day.

judge · 11-16-2003, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ex-xian
I was just wondering how the apologists deal with this one.

In Matthew the bible says that Jesus couldn't heal everyone in a city because of their unbelief. But in Acts, Peter (I think) preaches and says that Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil.

I never really thought about his when I was a fundy, and the thought just popped into my head the other day.

I've seen some really trully difficult passages to reconclie but this one takes the cake

ex-xian · 11-16-2003, 02:09 AM

I found the specific passages.

Quote:

Matthew 13
54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.
58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Mark 6
1 And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
4 But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

Contrast the above with this:

Quote:

Acts 10
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

offa · 11-16-2003, 03:20 AM

"All" denotes a sect. "All" denotes "fundies". "All" does not include every single person. Another sect was the "Many" which could be "one person" in a crowd. The "All" were originally all the followers of king Herod. If you were not a follower of king Herod you were not an "All". "All" the infants (ordered) slaughtered by king Herod belonged to his jurisdiction. Understanding what you read you discover that these "infants" were adults and were released unharmed by Herod's sister, Salome.

11-16-2003, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ex-xian
I found the specific passages.

Contrast the above with this:

Those he preached to in Matthew were hypocrates (fundies) and could not be healed because of their self righteousness but those who had not acquired such righteousness were sick and could be healed. He's just shown us that salvation is for confessed sinners only and that any acquired righteousness will prevent this.

In Acts all were sinners and therefore could be healed.

mark9950 · 11-17-2003, 08:24 PM

If belief can heal why does anyoneone need a jesus to believe in the first place?They could believe in that the tree will heal them.

Just more proof that jesus was a false prophet.

Mike(ATL) · 11-17-2003, 09:07 PM

The account there in Acts 10 is a very quick general account. The point in saying that is that Jesus was healing people, not that He was healing everyone in the world. Obviously Jesus did not heal everyone in the world and Luke would not be saying that.

Madkins007 · 11-17-2003, 10:10 PM

Matt 13:58, NASB: "And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.", but He DID do some healings, as recorded in Mark's version.

Then, Acts talks about how he healed 'all that were oppressed by the devil'.

a.) These would appear to be two different things- performing miracles and healing demonic oppression. Certainly, such healings are miracles, but since healings are specifically mentioned seperately, one suspects that such healings were not what Mark or Matt meant.

b.) 'All' is an interesting word in English, and it has many of those same properties in Greek. It often does not mean 'each and every of the univeral set'. It may mean 'all who came to Him', etc.

c.) Is there any reason to believe that Jesus was not able to heal somone demonically oppressed during His visit home? After all, it does not say that He did not do ANY miracles, just 'not many'.

Side note- Ex-xian, presenting the Acts quote with your emphasis ("and healing all that were oppressed of the devil") seems a little skewed to me. Shouldn't it have been "and healing all that were oppressed of the devil"?

Doctor X · 11-17-2003, 10:16 PM

I am most partial to the one where it takes a few tries to heal the blind dude.

Anyone can have an off day. . . .

--J.D.

11-16-2003, 01:18 AM	#1
ex-xian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: :noitacoL Posts: 4,679	A(nother) Contradiction I was just wondering how the apologists deal with this one. In Matthew the bible says that Jesus couldn't heal everyone in a city because of their unbelief. But in Acts, Peter (I think) preaches and says that Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed of the devil. I never really thought about his when I was a fundy, and the thought just popped into my head the other day.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-16-2003, 03:20 AM	#4
offa Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Monroeville, Ohio, USA Posts: 440	"All" denotes a sect. "All" denotes "fundies". "All" does not include every single person. Another sect was the "Many" which could be "one person" in a crowd. The "All" were originally all the followers of king Herod. If you were not a follower of king Herod you were not an "All". "All" the infants (ordered) slaughtered by king Herod belonged to his jurisdiction. Understanding what you read you discover that these "infants" were adults and were released unharmed by Herod's sister, Salome.

11-17-2003, 08:24 PM	#6
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	If belief can heal why does anyoneone need a jesus to believe in the first place?They could believe in that the tree will heal them. Just more proof that jesus was a false prophet.

11-17-2003, 09:07 PM	#7
Mike(ATL) Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 98	The account there in Acts 10 is a very quick general account. The point in saying that is that Jesus was healing people, not that He was healing everyone in the world. Obviously Jesus did not heal everyone in the world and Luke would not be saying that.

11-17-2003, 10:10 PM	#8
Madkins007 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 591	Matt 13:58, NASB: "And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.", but He DID do some healings, as recorded in Mark's version. Then, Acts talks about how he healed 'all that were oppressed by the devil'. a.) These would appear to be two different things- performing miracles and healing demonic oppression. Certainly, such healings are miracles, but since healings are specifically mentioned seperately, one suspects that such healings were not what Mark or Matt meant. b.) 'All' is an interesting word in English, and it has many of those same properties in Greek. It often does not mean 'each and every of the univeral set'. It may mean 'all who came to Him', etc. c.) Is there any reason to believe that Jesus was not able to heal somone demonically oppressed during His visit home? After all, it does not say that He did not do ANY miracles, just 'not many'. Side note- Ex-xian, presenting the Acts quote with your emphasis ("and healing all that were oppressed of the devil") seems a little skewed to me. Shouldn't it have been "and healing all that were oppressed of the devil"?

11-17-2003, 10:16 PM	#9
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	I am most partial to the one where it takes a few tries to heal the blind dude. Anyone can have an off day. . . . --J.D.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.