Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 04-14-2012, 05:29 PM

I have thinking about the origins of adelphopoiesis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelphopoiesis and I can't help wonder if Moses and Aaron might be the root of the practice in the Orthodox church. Aaron doesn't even appear in the initial narrative with Moses as a baby. At Exodus 4:14 God just introduces Aaron without any warning. And then there is Marqe's strange interest in the two:

Quote:

I send your brother to you to meet you, since his tongue is more practised than yours (cf. E x . iv. 1 4 ) . Listen to my words and repeat them to your brother (Ex. iv. 1 5 ) . He will address the Egyptians and the congregation. You will be my viceregent and he will be your prophet (Ex. iv. 1 6 ) . Y o u two are the messengers of righteousness, about to reveal the ruination of Egypt. Two great lights, Aaron and Moses, you will illumine the congregation of Israel. Y o u will take the divine rod in your hand (Ex. iv. 1 7 ) ; you are not to stop, for the time of deliverance draws near." [1.3]

and again a little later:

Quote:

The Lord said to Aaron, Go (Ex. iv. 2 7 ; Targ.) and meet your brother, and receive from him the secrets he holds.
The Lord said to Aaron, Go and meet your brother, for you are about to become his prophet.
The Lord said to Aaron, Go and meet your brother. Because of you he will wage victorious war against Pharaoh the king.
The Lord said to Aaron, Go and meet your brother, for through seeing you his heart will be strengthened.
The Lord said to Aaron, Go and meet your brother, for his sons and wife have departed from him, and he is alone, left all by himself on the way.

If it has not occurred to him that his heart is straitened, I know that in your heart is something greater than in his, and with you he will conquer there in battle. I have given him my name, so that he need not fear. I have provided a rod for him out of the fire. I have shown him my signs, that his heart may not weaken. Despite that, he said, ' I am inexpert in speaking', but I said to him, concerning you, 'He will be your prophet'. Said he, 'Will he understand what I say ?' Be you at ease! Be a good intermediary. Arise in the morning to meet your brother in the desert; go and meet him at the Mountain of God—two
lights going out3 9 to each other."

So he went and met him at the mountain of God (Ex. iv. 2 7 ; T a r g . )—
the sun and the moon who came together from Amram and Jochebed.
So he went and met him at the mountain of God—the Tigris and Euphrates joined together.
How good to see them embracing there, between them great joy, the one kissing the other with tears in their eyes, having double love for one another. "Welcome, my brother," Aaron said to Moses, "The years have been too long for me since last seeing you. Time is short! The God of the world has proclaimed to me in your name."

Moses' joy was considerably increased (on hearing that). "Praise be to the Powerful One who has brought us together now after much delay, for a meeting after tarrying greatly increases love."
Jacob was united with Esau after many years, and their joy was
great and their hostility removed.
In the cave of the rock they stood, the two of them in great affection.
And Moses told Aaron all the words of the Lord (Ex. iv. 2 8 ; Targ.) and revealed to him these signs. Moses performed them in Aaron's presence.
When he heard these words from Moses, he began to utter praises to the God of the world. "Happy are you, my brother, for these mysteries which He has revealed to you."
How excellent to see them enter Egypt like the two angels who entered Sodom!
The two angels entered Sodom at eventide, sent to open the storehouse
of wrath upon all the inhabitants therein.
Moses and Aaron entered Egypt at eventide, sent to open the storehouse of judgement therein.
The angels were sent to destroy Sodom. Moses and Aaron were sent to destroy Egypt.
The angels ate unleavened bread in Sodom. Moses and Aaron celebrated the feast of unleavened bread in Egypt.
The angels burnt the young in the deep. Moses and Aaron smote Pishon, tributary of Eden.
The angels drove Lot out in the morning. Moses and Aaron led the Israelites out before morning.
Excellent for ever these two! Their greatness fills the heavens and the earth! [1.3]

I know this won't mean any thing to most people but Sylvia Powells took the late reverend John Bowman to task for going along with contemporary claims that simmut (the holiday celebrated 60 before Passover) was about the the meeting of Moses and Aaron and the conjunction of the sun and the moon saying this only came later. WTF is the matter with her? The evidence is right here in Marqe that Bowman was right.

stephan huller · 04-14-2012, 05:32 PM

I think there is this intimation in Marqe they were 'conjoined' in some mystic rite:

Quote:

When they came and looked over the gate of Pharaoh's palace and saw him and all his servants frozen with fear, they passed through and entered the presence of Pharaoh the king. They found him fainting, the serpent in front of him menacing, while he was in terror of the serpent lest it should swallow him. Moses and Aaron were like two lights, their faces giving light in Pharaoh's abode. [1.5]

Quote:

The Egyptians remained in affliction, being also severely oppressed, while Moses and Aaron like two lights shone among the stars of Sarah and Abraham. [1.6]

Quote:

The great prophet Moses stood up in the assembly of Israel and instructed them about deliverance. He told them to prepare themselves for the time of departure on the tenth of the month, to prepare to sacrifice the offering, and take in the tenth of the month a perfect one year old lamb (Ex. xii. 3-5).

See what God commanded the great prophet Moses on the tenth of the month. He made it a command that it should be prepared from the fourth to the fourteenth day, for the slaughtering of an offering to the Lord.

... O Aaron, Eleazar and Phinehas, three glorious, magnificent ones, as I have united the two of you (Moses and Aaron) in goodness, so you shall be united as one in uprightness. The tenth day is for you (Moses) and what follows is for Aaron. What you hear is from me. The tenth day is for you and what follows is for Aaron. I have vested you with my name and I have vested him with yours. [1.9]

stephan huller · 04-14-2012, 05:42 PM

More from Book Three

Quote:

Of the great treasure which enriches the life of the world let us take our fill, that we may be sustained in the world.

Great is the treasure of the True One, all of which is blessings. Great is the man who is satisfied from it. Wealth—none to compare with it— a wealth of wisdom; it is the gateway to the knowledge of the treasure.

If Moses was magnified in his prophethood, so Aaron was glorified in his priesthood from the day the great prophet Moses was told, And Aaron your brother shall be your prophet (Ex. vii. 1 ; Targ.). The two of them were united in perfection and at various places unions took place for them in their mission to Pharaoh. Aaron was not commissioned at that time to the priesthood, but only after Israel were delivered.[3.1]

Quote:

Observe this glory b y which Aaron was glorified, when he occupied two statuses, prophethood and priesthood. When Aaron was magnified, he was partner to the great prophet Moses time after time. The will of the True One revealed the glorifying of Israel, teaching them, reproving and warning them, showing them—visibly not mentally—the might of the Blessing and the threat of the Curse. [ibid]

Book Four

Quote:

MIM (= 90) is the number of the years during which the divine Favour was present in the days of the great prophet Moses, when the two were joined together, when the world was magnified. [4.4]

stephan huller · 04-14-2012, 06:07 PM

Apparently John MacDonald (the translator of the Mimar) says in a footnote here that "for the significance of this union (between Moses and Aaron), see C. Vols. I and II for Services of Zimmut, and Introduction, chapter 7, of D. W. Mowbray, A critical Edition and Translation of the Sam. Liturgies for the Zimmut Pesah and Zimmut Sukkot and Associated Semi-Festival Liturgies (Ph. D. dissertation, University of Leeds, 1959).

Anyone live in Indianapolis, Chicago or Leeds so that I might get a copy of this dissertion?

stephan huller · 04-14-2012, 06:13 PM

I know from my Samaritan friends that the rite has something to do with the conjoining of the sun and moon used during the calculations for the lunar calendar. The moon lines up between the sun and the earth on the first of each month but the Samaritans make calculations to make sure their lunar calendar matches up with the solar twice a year - the so-called Simmut of Pesach and Sukkot. The Simmut of Pesach is on 15th of the 11th month - 60 days before Passover. But the symbolism could obviously have taken sexual significance - sun and the moon 'join' on the first of each month - the sun = masculine/moon = feminine. It's curious that Samaritans also identify the beginning of the 'Sabbath of the Miracles' = the signs given by Moses and Aaron to Pharaoh at the beginning of 11th month. Moses learns the magic at seeing the burning bush and almost immediately becomes 'conjoined' with Aaron. Curious. Why introduce this 'brother' into the narrative? Yes Moses is in heaven and Aaron represents the high priest on earth. But the brother thing is odd.

Sheshbazzar · 04-14-2012, 07:16 PM

It being estimated by most that Moses 'did his thing' circa 1400 BCE, and with no record of this 'Moses' character at all until introduced by the Judean scribes circa 800 BCE, What Marqe wrote about 'Moses' and 'Aaron' is about as informed as what todays religious writers write about Jeebus and Yacov ('James').
Were Jeebus and Yacov actual brothers? Were they even real people?

It being estimated that Moses 'did his thing' circa 1400 BCE, Proving that there even ever was a real 'Moses' with whom YHWH actually conversed, or that he might have had a brother, is right up there with trying to prove that Jeebus walked on water and flew up into the clouds.
Mimar Marqe's 1400 year latter religious hoodoo isn't going to make any religious claims about 'Moses' and 'Aaron' any more valid.

When it comes to Christian preachers, one cannot even trust them to give an honest accounting of events that happened yesterday, much less something allegedly 1400 to 3500 years earlier.

Quote:

I send your brother to you to meet you, since his tongue is more practised than yours (cf. E x . iv. 1 4 ) . Listen to my words and repeat them to your brother (Ex. iv. 1 5 ) . He will address the Egyptians and the congregation. You will be my viceregent and he will be your prophet (Ex. iv. 1 6 ) . Y o u two are the messengers of righteousness, about to reveal the ruination of Egypt. Two great lights, Aaron and Moses, you will illumine the congregation of Israel. Y o u will take the divine rod in your hand (Ex. iv. 1 7 ) ; you are not to stop, for the time of deliverance draws near." [1.3]

Is this actually YHWH speaking to "Moses" circa 1400 BCE?
Or is it rather a circa 800-600 BCE Judean scribe writing a highly imaginary conversation and a fictional Jewish national history?
My bet is on the latter.

.

outhouse · 04-14-2012, 07:17 PM

Moses never existed as a real person. he only exist in literature

So no, they were not brothers.

stephan huller · 04-14-2012, 08:06 PM

Still the question remains why introduce Aaron into the narrative in such a seemingly sloppy manner - akin to resorting to introducing cousin Oliver.

outhouse · 04-14-2012, 08:24 PM

well the question remains, who do you personaly think redacted the family memeber??

Do you think Ezra is responsible?

outhouse · 04-14-2012, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

It being estimated by most that Moses 'did his thing' circa 1400 BCE, and with no record of this 'Moses' character at all until introduced by the Judean scribes circa 800 BCE, What Marqe wrote about 'Moses' and 'Aaron' is about as informed as what todays religious writers write about Jeebus and Yacov ('James').
Were Jeebus and Yacov actual brothers? Were they even real people?

It being estimated that Moses 'did his thing' circa 1400 BCE, Proving that there even ever was a real 'Moses' with whom YHWH actually conversed, or that he might have had a brother, is right up there with trying to prove that Jeebus walked on water and flew up into the clouds.
Mimar Marqe's 1400 year latter religious hoodoo isn't going to make any religious claims about 'Moses' and 'Aaron' any more valid.

When it comes to Christian preachers, one cannot even trust them to give an honest accounting of events that happened yesterday, much less something allegedly 1400 to 3500 years earlier.

Quote:

I send your brother to you to meet you, since his tongue is more practised than yours (cf. E x . iv. 1 4 ) . Listen to my words and repeat them to your brother (Ex. iv. 1 5 ) . He will address the Egyptians and the congregation. You will be my viceregent and he will be your prophet (Ex. iv. 1 6 ) . Y o u two are the messengers of righteousness, about to reveal the ruination of Egypt. Two great lights, Aaron and Moses, you will illumine the congregation of Israel. Y o u will take the divine rod in your hand (Ex. iv. 1 7 ) ; you are not to stop, for the time of deliverance draws near." [1.3]

Is this actually YHWH speaking to "Moses" circa 1400 BCE?
Or is it rather a circa 800-600 BCE Judean scribe writing a highly imaginary conversation and a fictional Jewish national history?
My bet is on the latter.

.

I agree on the most part

I think your generous with 600-800 though

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04-14-2012, 06:07 PM	#4
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Apparently John MacDonald (the translator of the Mimar) says in a footnote here that "for the significance of this union (between Moses and Aaron), see C. Vols. I and II for Services of Zimmut, and Introduction, chapter 7, of D. W. Mowbray, A critical Edition and Translation of the Sam. Liturgies for the Zimmut Pesah and Zimmut Sukkot and Associated Semi-Festival Liturgies (Ph. D. dissertation, University of Leeds, 1959). Anyone live in Indianapolis, Chicago or Leeds so that I might get a copy of this dissertion?

04-14-2012, 06:13 PM	#5
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I know from my Samaritan friends that the rite has something to do with the conjoining of the sun and moon used during the calculations for the lunar calendar. The moon lines up between the sun and the earth on the first of each month but the Samaritans make calculations to make sure their lunar calendar matches up with the solar twice a year - the so-called Simmut of Pesach and Sukkot. The Simmut of Pesach is on 15th of the 11th month - 60 days before Passover. But the symbolism could obviously have taken sexual significance - sun and the moon 'join' on the first of each month - the sun = masculine/moon = feminine. It's curious that Samaritans also identify the beginning of the 'Sabbath of the Miracles' = the signs given by Moses and Aaron to Pharaoh at the beginning of 11th month. Moses learns the magic at seeing the burning bush and almost immediately becomes 'conjoined' with Aaron. Curious. Why introduce this 'brother' into the narrative? Yes Moses is in heaven and Aaron represents the high priest on earth. But the brother thing is odd.

04-14-2012, 07:17 PM	#7
outhouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auburn ca Posts: 4,269	Moses never existed as a real person. he only exist in literature So no, they were not brothers.

04-14-2012, 08:06 PM	#8
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Still the question remains why introduce Aaron into the narrative in such a seemingly sloppy manner - akin to resorting to introducing cousin Oliver.

04-14-2012, 08:24 PM	#9
outhouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auburn ca Posts: 4,269	well the question remains, who do you personaly think redacted the family memeber?? Do you think Ezra is responsible?

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