Toto

A thread in another forum from someone who didn't know the connection between Mardi Gras and Ash Wednesday raised this issue.

I found this: What happened in the 6th century that led to this? Why not before?

ph2ter

I will again stress possible pagan origin of Ash Wednesday.
The celebration of Ash Wednesday in some sense follows the pagan customs.
It is very interesting to note that the ashes for Ash Wednesday are prepared by burning palm leaves from the previous year's Palm Sunday celebrations.
Palm leaves are burned probably with the same symbolism with which the vegetation god in some of IE cultures at the end of pagan year (around Spring Equinox) had to be figuratively burned to enable him rebirth. Burning the old body was necessary for rebirth (in India still in practice).
Easter bonfires in some parts of Europe probably represent burning the old vegetation god body (a tree). It was believed that the ashes of Easter bonfire have a magical power and according to that were used as a rebirth agent.
In the 6th century multitude of pagan Europeans outside of Roman Empire were started to be incorporated into the Church.

Splarnst

Yesterday I reminded someone that on Sundays they could have whatever they gave up for Lent because it's not part of the 40 days. She immediately asked where that was in the Bible. I responded that Lent is not in the Bible.

Oy.

Vampyroteuthis

Don't you LOVE that?!

andrewcriddle

This may be of interrest.
Ash Wednesday

Andrew Criddle

mountainman

There is no historical basis for any of the legendary christian saints. They appear as inventions of the ruling class at the end of the fourth century, and such invention continued every century after then. I am not sure that it has stopped even to this day.

When they ran out of legendary christian saints and holy days and basilicas, the process of "christianisation" turned to more mundane elements, such as ash. There was alot of ash in the empire during the fifth and sixth centuries, and especially in the east, near Alexandria. The literature of the Manichaeans (and many others) for example were publically burnt before the sturdy doors of major basilicas through the fourth and fifth centuries.

The historical basis for all this appears to be simple literary invention, from at least the epoch of Damasius c.365 CE, who was the first christian bishop to secure the ancient title of "pontifex maximus".

Toto

Please stop making stuff up.

Huon

Pope Gregory the Great (590-604) decided that Lent should begin on Ash Wednesday (February 25 in 2009), so that there were 40 days of fast including the Sundays, before Palm Sunday (April 5 in 2009). 4 days in February, 31 days in March, 5 days in April.

Why not before ? Dunno. As soon as the IVth century, the penitents who repented publicly were marked with ashes, and excluded from the religious services during a variable number of days. Their penitence ended on Holy Thursday. Probably, Pope Greg wanted to have a general rule, to avoid criticisms of severe bishops, as compared to more lax bishops.

In Gaul, the merovingian nobles were not models of good behavior, and there are records of conflicts between an important noble and a bishop, recorded by Gregory of Tours.