Crucifiction

One of the arguments I hear against Jesus being the Messiah {primarily from Orthodox Jews} is that the Messiah is supposed to be a Nazerite, and Jesus was not.

Can anybody provide more information on this? It seems to be a pretty fascinating subject. Why wouldn't Luke recognize this? Was he simply unfamilliar with a Nazerite, and chose to place Jesus' birth in Nazareth {a purely fictional town}?

Toto

Could you show where the Messiah was supposed to be a Nazerite?

Crucifiction

Unfortunatly, no.

All I know about the matter is that I read an essay on the Internet a few years ago writen by a Rabbi which said that Jesus couldn't possibly be the Messiah, because he was supposed to be a Nazerite; the same Jewish sect as Samson.

I was just wondering if anybody else had heard of this argument against the divinity of Christ, and if it was factually relevant.

Atheos

I don't believe that there is any prophecy in the Old Testament canon commonly accepted today that says anything about the messiah being a Nazerite. You may be confusing the odd reference made by whoever wrote the book of "Matthew" (Matt 2:23) where it says "that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene".

There was a difference between taking a Nazerite vow and simply being from the city of Nazereth.

HTH

-Atheos

Crucifiction

Well, I did confuse Nazareth; it's real, Bethlehem wasn't.

And I'm thinking this is more like an extra-Biblical Judaistic tradition; anybody have an idea?

Ted Hoffman

"Epiphanius, an early Christian cataloguer of 'heresies' mentions a pre-Christian sect called 'the Nazoreans' their name meaning the Keepers of the Torah, or possibly, the secrets (see Mark 4:11, 'To you has been given the kingdom of God but to those outside all is by way of parable'). These Nazoreans were the heirs, supposedly of the neoprimitivist sect of the Rechabites descending from the times of Jeremiah (Jer. 35:1-10). They were like Gypsies, itinerant carpenters. 'Nazorean' occurs once unambiguously in the New Testament itself as a designation in Acts 24:5: 'a ring leader of the sect of the Nazoreans'. Robert Eisler (The Messiah Jesus and John the Baptist), Hugh J. Schonfield (North Palestinian Sectarians and Christian Origins), have plausibly suggested that Jesus (an early Christians generally) were members of this Jewish pious sect"

Robert Price, Incredible Shrinking Son of Man, p.53

Jdges 13:5 says "He will be a Nazirite". Matthew appears to have got Nazwraois (in the Alex Text) from that. This was later redacted to Nazarene.

I know, I have delayed in finalizing my Nazareth paper.

TySixtus

I was under the impression that Nazareth didn't exist at the time of Jesus, as the Romans had no record of the place. And they wrote down everything; so I can't see them missing a whole city.

I am of the opinion (like many others) that he was a Nazarene, a member of the cult that supposedly camped out in the wilderness and were in charge of maintaining the secrets hidden under the Temple.

Ty

andrewcriddle

I'm not aware of such a view.

Is it possible that the actual argument went something like this ?

Christians believe according to Matthew 2:23 that the scriptural
prophecies require the Messiah to be a Nazerite.

Jesus however was clearly not a Nazerite (he drank wine etc)

Hence by Christians own arguments Jesus is not the Messiah.

I don't myself find it a very solid argument but there are several Jewish websites putting forward this sort of argument ie one based not upon Jewish Messianic beliefs but upon alleged contradictions and inconsistencies within Christian beliefs about the Messianic status of Jesus.

Andrew Criddle

Crucifiction

Hmm... that could be it; in fact, I think it is.

By the by, why do you not find it solid?

andrewcriddle

Matthew 2:23 is a puzzling verse but I doubt if Matthew meant to claim that scripture says that the Messiah will be a Nazerite in the sense of Samson or Samuel. Particularly since I can't see where in the Hebrew Bible Matthew would have got that idea.

Andrew Criddle