Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 01-24-2012, 09:12 PM

I happened to stumble on this description of the Peratici in Stromata Book Seven Chapter Whatever:

Quote:

Of the heresies, some receive their appellation from a name, as that which is called after Valentinus, and that after Marcion, and that after Basilides, although they boast of adducing the opinion of Matthew; for as the teaching, so also the tradition of the apostles was one. Some take their designation from a place, as the Peratici; some from a nation, as the of the Phrygians; some from an action, as that of the Encratites; and some from peculiar dogmas, as that of the Docetae, and that of the Harmatites; and some from suppositions, and from individuals they have honoured, as those called Cainists, and the Ophians; and some from nefarious practices and enormities, as those of the Simonians called Entychites.

So, as always, I went through a Google search, which started with the relevant Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perates. When I first started reading the article I thought 'wow, there's a lot of information here.' But by the end, I thought 'wait a minute, this is stupid.' Why stupid? Because the author has put too much irrelevant information without seeing the obvious answer to the question.

Clement says that the Peratici are named after a place. The place has to be Perea, the land on the other side of the Jordan river. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perea_(Bible) I don't know why this isn't mentioned in the article. The author was too busy cramming as much information as possible which distract the reader from the original question. Does anyone know how to update the Wikipedia page? I think this is really important.

What fascinates me actually is Clement's original list of heresies. This is not drawn from our Against Heresies by Irenaeus but seems instead to be some ancestor of the Philosophumena. It is interesting to note that Clement was drawing from some heretical syntagma of some sort. Which one? I don't know. But I think this is overlooked in the study of the heresies. Clement witnesses that at least by the beginning of the third century (i.e. before Hippolytus's syntagma) of another text which is providing 'the greater Church' with information about 'the heresies' which wasn't the same as Irenaeus's work (which ultimately became the 'gold standard' in the third century and beyond).

The Christian culture of Perea is also quite interesting because Church Fathers keep pointing out this region as the origin of many important texts and traditions including the Gospel of the Hebrews. Theodore Weeden has an interesting theory about ALL or most of the gospels developing from this part of the world.

sotto voce · 01-25-2012, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

The Christian culture of Perea is also quite interesting because Church Fathers

What do the latter have to do with the former?

Vorkosigan · 01-25-2012, 06:56 AM

You can update the page yourself, Stephen, just go to the tabs at the top and pick EDIT and go for it.

sotto voce · 01-25-2012, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkosigan

You can update the page yourself, Stephen, just go to the tabs at the top and pick EDIT and go for it.

There are already hundreds of entries that somehow confuse men called 'Church Fathers' with those whom those men detested, so another one won't be noticed.

Toto · 01-25-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkosigan

You can update the page yourself, Stephen, just go to the tabs at the top and pick EDIT and go for it.

First of all you have to register and then you can edit - but you have to spend some time figuring out the standards and practices. A simple edit should not take a long time, unless the question has some political or religious overtones ....

sotto voce · 01-25-2012, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkosigan

You can update the page yourself, Stephen, just go to the tabs at the top and pick EDIT and go for it.

First of all you have to register and then you can edit - but you have to spend some time figuring out the standards and practices. A simple edit should not take a long time, unless the question has some political or religious overtones ....

It's a waste of time and effort if Jesuits disagree.

andrewcriddle · 01-25-2012, 11:34 AM

There is a discussion at Ebionism and Ebionites

Quote:

The Ebionites were known by other names, such as "Homuncionites" (Gk. "Anthropians" or " Anthropolatrians") from their Christological views, "Peratici" from their settlement at Peraea, and " Symmachians" from the one able literary man among them whose name has reached us

Andrew Criddle

stephan huller · 01-25-2012, 09:47 PM

Thank you Andrew. Knowledgeable as always. I don't know why I am so fascinated by this quote at the end of the Stromata. I think it allows us to pull back the window on the nonsense that is the 'heresiological' reports of the third century.

When you read Irenaeus you get the impression that the heretics called themselves by these stupid appellations. Yet with Clement you realize at once that these were names given to the sects by outsiders (making the typically Latinized Greek forms in Justin and others particularly curious).

But look again at the list of names. Clement is clearly telling us that these were names given by outsiders to more or less indefinable 'Christians' in various places:

Quote:

Of the heresies, some receive their appellation from a name, as that which is called after Valentinus, and that after Marcion, and that after Basilides,

τῶν δ' αἱρέσεων αἳ μὲν ἀπὸ ὀνόματος προσαγορεύονται, ὡς ἡ ἀπὸ Οὐαλεντίνου καὶ Μαρκίωνος καὶ Βασιλείδου,

although they boast of adducing the opinion of Matthew for as the teaching, so also the tradition of the apostles was one.

κἂν τὴν Ματθίου αὐχῶσι προσάγεσθαι δόξαν μία γὰρ ἡ πάντων γέγονε τῶν ἀποστόλων ὥσπερ διδασκαλία, οὕτως δὲ καὶ ἡ παράδοσις

Some take their designation from a place, as the Peratici;

αἳ δὲ ἀπὸ τόπου, ὡς οἱ Περατικοί,

some from a nation, as the of the Phrygians

αἳ δὲ ἀπὸ ἔθνους, ὡς ἡ τῶν Φρυγῶν,

some from an action, as that of the Encratites

αἳ δὲ ἀπὸ ἐνεργείας, ὡς ἡ τῶν Ἐγκρατητῶν,

and some from peculiar dogmas, as that of the Docetae, and that of the Harmatites

αἳ δὲ ἀπὸ δογμάτων ἰδιαζόντων, ὡς ἡ τῶν ∆οκητῶν καὶ ἡ τῶν Αἱματιτῶν,

and some from suppositions, and from individuals they have honoured, as those called Cainists, and the Ophians

αἳ δὲ ἀπὸ ὑποθέσεων καὶ ὧν τετιμήκασιν, ὡς Καϊανισταί τε καὶ οἱ Ὀφιανοὶ

and some from nefarious practices and enormities, as those of the Simonians called Entychites.

προσαγορευόμενοι, αἳ δὲ ἀφ' ὧν παρανόμως ἐπετήδευσάν τε καὶ ἐτόλμησαν, ὡς τῶν Σιμωνιανῶν οἱ Ἐντυχῖται καλούμενοι

Yet notice that no one of these names actually belongs to the sect. Clement is just citing commonly used terminology that outsiders identify various 'sects' or 'groups' of Christians. The 'outsiders' might be orthodox Christians or terminology picked up by the orthodox from others. Yet no one should mistake the Ophites actually being a real group of Christians. These are names given to outsiders.

I assume that Clement means to say that the Basilideans alone of the three groups named here claimed to be followers of 'Matthew.' It is worth noting that the Hebrew name behind our 'Matthew' and the Greek name 'Dositheus' mean one and the same thing. In other words, was Basilides really a follower of 'Matthew' or somehow connected to Dositheanism.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

01-25-2012, 06:56 AM	#3
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	You can update the page yourself, Stephen, just go to the tabs at the top and pick EDIT and go for it.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.