Sparrow

Well there may or may not be a problem. There's not enough information in the text to determine with certainty. But measuring at different points is usually meaningless. I could have a cone shaped object; the diameter at the base is certainly larger than the circumference closer to the pointy end. I must have special powers to do that! If it weren't so late, I might work out a formula for where on a cone the circumference equals the base diameter.

For Goliath, from Dictionary.com;

or alternately, from the same site:

There's no requirement that the object be perfectly round in order to have a diameter. The Earth has a diameter and is not perfectly round, for example. If we wish to be more precise, we might specify where or how the measurement is taken to more accurately describe the shape.

The babble is not a geometry textbook, both by definition and example. But whether or not the geometry examined here can be explained, there are much bigger problems in the text, IMO, to claiming it the perfect work of a perfect god.

Steven Carr

So if I talk about 'toy soldiers' and somebody points out that the word 'soldiers' is often used to describe grown men, then we cannot be sure that these toy soldiers were not grown men?

The phrase is 'qatan naar' (actually the plural of that), not 'naar'. But it is typical of people who want to deny errors, that they will strip things out of context, in just as horrible a fashion as stripping 'soldiers' out of the context 'toy soldiers'.

Your reference is wrong. There is no 'qatan naar' in 2 Kings 4:9. The word you yourself have translated as 'young man' is 'naar'.

So 'Qatan naar' must mean a young ,young man, or a boy.

Of course, you can continue to obfuscate by ignoring the words in the Bible and talking only about 'naar', when the real phrase is 'qatan naar', but you must forgive me if I find that less than impressive.

I did post where the leper's skin was miraculously restored to the complexion of a 'qatan naar' (little child).

Presumably the Bible means a miraculous outbreak of acne and grease as 'qatan naar' must mean teenager.

Madkins007

Re: the 'Pi' issue...

The Complete Jewish Bible for that passage reads:
1 Kings 7:23 "He made the cast metal "Sea" circular, seventeen-and-a-half feet from rim to rim, eight-and-three quarter feet high and fifty-two-and-a-half feet in circumference." (210" x 630")

This would be a noteworthy error if, and ONLY if it was measured for both measurements at the same place OR it was a cylinder- neither of which is stated in the text. (Or if it was measured on the inner curve, which seems awkward). The dang thing is over 8' high- how do we know they did not measure it a bit lower than the top rim? Measuring across the top would be fairly easy, but to get several people boosted up to hold a rope or something around a 50' rim seems tricky- and subject to error and approximation.

For that matter, if the brim spread out a bit, like a flange, and the 'rim to rim' went literally as described- outer edge ot outer edge, the BODY of the Sea could easily have been smaller. That would mean the the inner edge of the rim (if the idea is correct and the circumference is accurate) is about 200.5" across, giving us a rim of about 5" wide all around. That does not sound too unreasonable to me.

Yes, it assumes facts not in evidence, but so does the idea that it must have been measured for both at the same point.


As for needing at least an idea of pi to make wheels, etc.- if you are trying to make several same sized wheels (such as for a cart), you would, it seems, quickly learn that the ratios are not 1:3. Even if you did not figure out the real ratio, you ought to get that far at least! You'll make one and use it to measure out a jig or whatever, but you'd certainly learn that simple measurements would not suffice!

Steven Carr

It was certainly before 2 Kings 8, when in the fifth year of Joram the son of Ahab king of Israel, Jehoshaphat being then king of Judah, Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat king of Judah began to reign.

Sauron

Not to take the inerrantist side, but that particular contradiction I think is explained by the seven pairs applying to sacrificial animals only, "clean animals". The other kinds of animals were taken in pairs:

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

note: and evidently I have been marengo'ed, since someone else already responded on this.

Sauron

The author is a nutcase. You've stumbled upon some kind of a David Koresh/"New Christian Israel" website put out by an amateur in Texas. Did you actually see the author's resume and biography?
http://www.betemunah.org/watchman//autobio.html

Moreover, the celestrial events/astrology and biblical numerology emphasis sets off alarm bells for any sane person - unless they're deep into bible codes, or something similar:
http://www.betemunah.org/watchman//beyond.html
http://www.betemunah.org/watchman//events.html

And here is the piece de resistance, where your author tries to connect UFOs and alien abductions to "sons of the Nephilim", reminiscent of Erich von Daniken and "Chariots of the Gods"
http://www.betemunah.org/watchman//demons.html

I don't know why you used this site when trying to decide what "Amalek" means. Bad move. It doesn't mean anything even *close* to what you claimed above. You should have used Strong's concordance, the gold standard for such questions:

Strongs 06002:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...9714-7045.html

Amalek = "dweller in a valley"

No big mysteries here; and no "hidden meanings".

I must admit that I have a little chuckle whenever someone stumbles across a patently bogus website, and then tries to build an entire argument based on a nutcase translation.

Sauron

Not Isaiah. Exodus:

EXO 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
EXO 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments

And again:

EXO 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
EXO 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.



That's in Ezekiel:

EZE 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
EZE 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
EZE 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Sauron

Indeed. There are also numerous mistakes in the Bible as regards to Daniel, the invasion of Babylon, and Nebuchadnezzar.

GakuseiDon

D'oh! You're absolutely correct. I should have used blueletter, and not relied on that website.

It doesn't change my point, though. We don't know what the Amaleks called themselves, who they were, their culture, etc.

Touche!

Steven Carr

Do we know that they were wicked enough so that it was just and moral to exterminate them totally?