makerowner

Coins, monuments, contemporary histories, accounts from neutral and/or hostile contemporaries, probably other stuff I'm forgetting.

Johnny Skeptic

But even if Abraham, Moses, and Daniel existed, it is up to you to reasonably prove what they did. It is no more encumbent upon me to disprove the Bible than it is for you to disprove deism. Can you disprove deism? The Bible asserted first, not skeptics.

Let's get something straight: Do you or do you not believe that the Tyre prophecy can stand upon its own merits without being associated with any other prophecies?

Do you really believe that people ought to believe that the Tyre prophecy was written before the events based just upon your sayso? Those events happened thousands of years ago. How can you possibly know when Ezekiel wrote the Tyre prophecy?

This thread is about the Tyre prophecy. Do you have anything to say about the Tyre prophecy or not? If not, why are you making posts in this thread?

manwithdream

I didn't read all 7 pages of arguments about the Tyre prophecy, but here is my opinion. I hope it is not a repeat of whatever was said already. I think at first Babylon was supposed to destroy Tyre like Ezek. 26 says, but I think Tyre repented and surrendered to Babylon. I think Ezek 29:18-20 says every head was made bald refers to Tyre repenting because people used to shave their heads when they mourned for sins, etc.

Jeremiah 27:3 and 11 says that if nations surrender to Babylon they won't be destroyed, so Tyre surrendered and they were not destroyed. Jeremiah 18:7-10 says that G-d changes His mind. One minute He plans to destroy someplace, and the next minute if they change, He will change His mind also. He said Tyre would be destroyed in Ezekiel, but they surrendered and repented, so He cancelled their destruction.

Diogenes the Cynic

A new thread just for you

arnoldo

I don't see what difference it makes, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Yeshua.etc,etc are all just myths. Are you equally outraged about ancient greek prophecies or prophecies of any other religion that are fraudulent?

Jack the Bodiless

Arnoldo, why don't you try to learn about this stuff?

There's a whole list of reasons why Daniel isn't thought to have been written in the 6th century BC (and reasons why it's dated between 167 and 164 BC).

There are also reasons why the Exodus is considered fiction. That makes Moses as presented in the Bible a fictional character.

Abraham, David and Solomon might have existed in some form (though Solomon's "golden age" never happened, or was exaggerated, as no other civilizations were aware of it).

The books of Ezekiel and Jeremiah were each written by somebody: why do you imagine we consider those authors to be fictional? Though the Book of Jeremiah has definitely been tampered with, because different editions exist.

You need to understand that our opinions aren't just pulled out of thin air, or inspired by "atheism" or "Satan".

sugarhitman

The sealing and shuting of the book til the end means it shall not be understood until the time of the end. "But you Daniel shut up the book even to the time of the end: MANY SHALL RUN TO AND FRO (THROUGH THE BOOK) AND KNOWLEDGE SHALL INCREASE (OF THE END TIME PROPHECIES). "I (Daniel) heard but I UNDERSTOOD NOT: then I said O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?" And he said GO YOUR WAY DANIEL: FOR THE WORDS ARE CLOSED UP AND SEALED TILL THE TIME OF THE END.....THE WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND (the words in the end times). Compare this to Revelation 5 Where Jesus is the only one who is able to open the sealed book of Revelations and show the meaning of them to John...Only He was able to understand it...and to him to whom He reveals it. "Then He opened their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures." Luke 24. Jesus open their understanding of those scriptures that prophesied His death and resurection. Daniel could not understand What he was being told because it was not for his time. Thus the words and the book was to be sealed i.e. not to be understood until the right time.....The end times. :wave:

arnoldo

Thanks for you explanation of your point of view. I suppose that you trust (have faith) that your historical sources that prove the Tyre prophecy is wrong, right?

Sheshonq

1. The problem is that every generation has said it was the last one. Obviously they were all incorrect.

2. You seem to think the book is sealed. Good. Then arnoldo can't make any claims for fulfillled prophecy or a mention of Alexander. :rolling:

Diogenes the Cynic

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I was just providing you with information that you asked for. I'm not "outraged" by anything, nor do I think that all the characters you mentioned are necessarily mythological.

The word "fraudulent" is not one I would use with regard to attempted religious prophecy. For the most part, there is no deliberate "fraud" in such efforts, just very little success.