Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 10-24-2011, 10:38 PM

The Jewish Annotated New Testament (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Quote:

Product Description
Although major New Testament figures--Jesus and Paul, Peter and James, Jesus' mother Mary and Mary Magdalene--were Jews, living in a culture steeped in Jewish history, beliefs, and practices, there has never been an edition of the New Testament that addresses its Jewish background and the culture from which it grew--until now. In The Jewish Annotated New Testament, eminent experts under the general editorship of Amy-Jill Levine and Marc Z. Brettler put these writings back into the context of their original authors and audiences. And they explain how these writings have affected the relations of Jews and Christians over the past two thousand years.

An international team of scholars introduces and annotates the Gospels, Acts, Letters, and Revelation from Jewish perspectives, in the New Revised Standard Version translation. They show how Jewish practices and writings, particularly the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, influenced the New Testament writers. From this perspective, readers gain new insight into the New Testament's meaning and significance. In addition, thirty essays on historical and religious topics--Divine Beings, Jesus in Jewish thought, Parables and Midrash, Mysticism, Jewish Family Life, Messianic Movements, Dead Sea Scrolls, questions of the New Testament and anti-Judaism, and others--bring the Jewish context of the New Testament to the fore, enabling all readers to see these writings both in their original contexts and in the history of interpretation. For readers unfamiliar with Christian language and customs, there are explanations of such matters as the Eucharist, the significance of baptism, and "original sin."

Oxford University Press page

I can't find a table of contents online, but Mark Nanos is a contributor.

I looked around for reviews, and stumbled on a Traditional Catholic Forum thread. Sample comments: "Without having read it, and I can guarantee you I never will, I would guess it's a new bold attempt by the Rabbinic Talmudists to undermine the Faith. They are convinced that Trinitarianism, of which the Church is obviously the bulwark, is a blasphemy which must be destroyed and will stop at nothing." "The Jews have no excuse before God. Their continual rejection of Christ is a living testament to their perfidy and a punishment for their iniquity."

Toto · 10-24-2011, 10:49 PM

Interview with Amy Jill Levine

stephan huller · 10-25-2011, 01:19 AM

It's great that this stuff is being done now but still this Jews are typically so unimaginative that even they don't figure out how it all comes together. You have just about as likely a chance as picking a winning lottery ticket as you do finding a knowledgeable Jewish scholar explain the theological significance of the destruction of the Jewish temple. If they can't explain this, how can Christianity be explained? They learn from their Christian friends that Christianity was a religion which existed before the destruction of the temple. Maybe it did as some abstract theological curiosity (= the followers of a possible 'historical Jesus'). Yet the reality is that everything we know about Christianity and take for granted (= the written gospel, the commentary on the gospel viz. the Apostolikon) was written AFTER the destruction of the temple or at least at a moment when the author knew for certain that the destruction was certain and immanent.

This is the Jewish culture out of which Christianity grew - a bleak, nihilistic Jewish apocalyptic culture where the followers learned to embrace the destruction of everything that was once sacred in Judaism. It's so bizarre, the weirdness almost forces people to look away. Like taking the lyrics of a Black Sabbath song seriously.

If there was a Jewish culture behind Christianity, it was directed against Jewish proselytes rather than Jews. Learning to love - not merely accept the destruction of the temple is utterly difficult to fathom.

Toto · 10-25-2011, 11:01 AM

People do take Black Sabbath lyrics literally. Rock Music: the Devil's Advocate

stephan huller · 10-25-2011, 11:12 AM

I remember in high school there was a really serious Black Sabbath fan (does any one remember the crucifix shaped spelling of “Black Sabbath”?) who spent all art glass making a ceramic pot leaf with the title of a Black Sabbath song prominently displayed. Too bad he was really stoned and really stupid most of the time. The title of the piece - “Sweat Leaf”

tanya · 10-25-2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy-Jill Levine

Similarly, the Bible has been read in ways that harmed women and people who do not conform to prevailing sexual norms. If I can use my scholarship to promote better interfaith relations and to decrease sexism and homophobia, good.

Gosh, what is she smoking?

The bible is filled with anti-female sentiments.

Does this silly woman not understand that Biblical hostility to women, comes DIRECTLY from ancient Judaism?

What is Sodomy? Has she even read the "old testament", what with all her prancing about teaching sunday school to Christians? What did the Jews do to the homosexuals? Did they not ANNHILATE them?

Where does she imagine these ancient stupidities associated with STONING women, come from? What, she wants to promote interfaith relations by sweeping that under the rug? Women have ALWAYS been second class citizens in Judaism. Islam faithfully reproduces this ancient Jewish nonsense.

Those weren't Jews getting ready to stone the adulteress in the forged pericope, were they? Hey, Amy, were they also planning to stone the male adulterer? No? I wonder why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by John 8:2

At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

Wake up, silly goose.

:banghead:

stephan huller · 10-25-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Where does she imagine these ancient stupidities associated with STONING women, come from?

Did you ever see the Monty Python bit about the disguised women at the stoning in Life of Brian? Women are the biggest defenders of traditional religion no matter how misogynistic. Indeed I was watching the Oprah channel the other night and they had this documentary Miss something or other. It was just all these women complaining that the media is still influencing women in the wrong way. Too sexualized I think was the complaint. But then they got on the topic of the women's movement and brushed over the fact that thirty years ago the media was keeping women down by 'forcing' them to abandon their sexuality. So the media was bad back then for doing the exact opposite of what it is now accused of doing. It's rather stupid.

If women didn't already have the wiring to attack themselves and be their own worst enemies religion would never have taken off in the first place. A 'men's only' religion can only be so successful when it is women who control the home and make certain that their sons and daughters continue to perpetuate the religious beliefs of their ancestors.

Very few fathers making sure that the children embrace that old time religion. Most would rather stay at home Sunday and watch the game.

No Robots · 10-25-2011, 03:05 PM

To the contrary, the Gospels tell us about women’s substantial rights: owning homes, having use of their own property, having freedom of travel, worshipping in synagogues and the Jerusalem Temple, and so on. Women did not join Jesus because Judaism oppressed them, and the Jewish women who followed him did not cease to be Jews.--from the interview.

No Robots · 10-25-2011, 03:11 PM

Thanks for the notice, Toto.

Levine also wrote The misunderstood Jew: the Church and the scandal of the Jewish Jesus (2007).

DCHindley · 10-25-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

I remember in high school there was a really serious Black Sabbath fan (does any one remember the crucifix shaped spelling of “Black Sabbath”?) who spent all art glass making a ceramic pot leaf with the title of a Black Sabbath song prominently displayed. Too bad he was really stoned and really stupid most of the time. The title of the piece - “Sweat Leaf (sic)”

While the received lyrics from this song from the 1971 vinyl album Master of Reality read "you introduced me, to my mind," it has been argued by serious music critics (well, actually, me), the spoken lyrics go "you introduced me, to my wife." This interpretation is reinforced by the lyrics of the rest of the song.

When I first met you, didn't realize
I can't forget you, for your surprise
you introduced me, to my mind
And left me wanting, you and your kind

I love you, Oh you know it

My life was empty, forever on a down
Until you took me, showed me around
My life is free now, my life is clear
I love you sweet leaf, though you can't hear

Come on now, try it out

Straight people don't know, what you're about
They put you down and shut you out
you gave to me a new belief
and soon the world will love you sweet leaf

From the incontrovertible evidence bolded above, I can state with confidence that "Sweet Leaf" was, in fact, a deaf transvestite "top" who inspired the songwriter to fall in love and advocate kinky homosexual relationships. Any thought that the "sweet leaf" is an oblique reference to the commonly misused and abused street drug cannibis sativa (or anachronistically, cannibis indica) is clearly wrong and highly speculative.

Given the historical circumstances, "Sweet Leaf" may have influenced David Bowie's Ziggy Stardust & the Spiders from Mars vinyl album videos (1972-73), which portray him with a transvestite-themed androgynous look. Per Bowie, Ziggy is the human manifestation of an alien being who is attempting to present humanity with a message of hope in the last five years of its existence. Ziggy Stardust is the definitive rock star: sexually promiscuous, wild in drug intake and with a message, ultimately, of peace and love; but he is destroyed both by his own excesses of drugs and sex, and by the fans he inspired. I am struck by the Lyric from the song Ziggy Stardust: "Making love with his ego, Ziggy sucked up into his mind, Like a leper messiah." In a way, Ziggy is a kind of reincarnation of Marcion of Sinope's errant disciple Apelles.

Curiously, though, in the 1976 movie The Man Who Fell to Earth, Bowie's character was brought up in a world beyond our understanding, and so barely heard the concerns of his patent lawyer who found his music orbs and orb player so fascinating, although to Thomas Jerome Newton (Bowie) they were like a CD & CD player are to us. In this movie, however, Bowie's alien wife back on Anthea is slowly dying due to the planet's severe drought, all the while unable to hear word from her husband on account of his semi-forced government incarceration in a luxury apartment having sex with Mary-Lou, before she and her children, who were conceived without the blessing of sex but through high technology, shrivel up like leaves. So, ironically, she is the "real" Sweet Leaf.

Duh!

DCH

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10-24-2011, 10:49 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Interview with Amy Jill Levine

10-25-2011, 01:19 AM	#3
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	It's great that this stuff is being done now but still this Jews are typically so unimaginative that even they don't figure out how it all comes together. You have just about as likely a chance as picking a winning lottery ticket as you do finding a knowledgeable Jewish scholar explain the theological significance of the destruction of the Jewish temple. If they can't explain this, how can Christianity be explained? They learn from their Christian friends that Christianity was a religion which existed before the destruction of the temple. Maybe it did as some abstract theological curiosity (= the followers of a possible 'historical Jesus'). Yet the reality is that everything we know about Christianity and take for granted (= the written gospel, the commentary on the gospel viz. the Apostolikon) was written AFTER the destruction of the temple or at least at a moment when the author knew for certain that the destruction was certain and immanent. This is the Jewish culture out of which Christianity grew - a bleak, nihilistic Jewish apocalyptic culture where the followers learned to embrace the destruction of everything that was once sacred in Judaism. It's so bizarre, the weirdness almost forces people to look away. Like taking the lyrics of a Black Sabbath song seriously. If there was a Jewish culture behind Christianity, it was directed against Jewish proselytes rather than Jews. Learning to love - not merely accept the destruction of the temple is utterly difficult to fathom.

10-25-2011, 11:01 AM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	People do take Black Sabbath lyrics literally. Rock Music: the Devil's Advocate

10-25-2011, 11:12 AM	#5
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I remember in high school there was a really serious Black Sabbath fan (does any one remember the crucifix shaped spelling of “Black Sabbath”?) who spent all art glass making a ceramic pot leaf with the title of a Black Sabbath song prominently displayed. Too bad he was really stoned and really stupid most of the time. The title of the piece - “Sweat Leaf”

10-25-2011, 03:05 PM	#8
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	To the contrary, the Gospels tell us about women’s substantial rights: owning homes, having use of their own property, having freedom of travel, worshipping in synagogues and the Jerusalem Temple, and so on. Women did not join Jesus because Judaism oppressed them, and the Jewish women who followed him did not cease to be Jews.--from the interview.

10-25-2011, 03:11 PM	#9
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	Thanks for the notice, Toto. Levine also wrote The misunderstood Jew: the Church and the scandal of the Jewish Jesus (2007).

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