Amaleq13

Your Bible says otherwise:

And Jehovah saith, `I wipe away man whom I have prepared from off the face of the ground, from man unto beast, unto creeping thing, and unto fowl of the heavens, for I have repented that I have made them.'(Gen 6:7, YLT)

ddc0708

If god were perfect, or even existed in the Judea-Christian value that you present, then he wouldn't have needed to wipe the Earth clean the first time since humans wouldn't have been so right the first time, due to his perfection. So, in the Christian sense, he wouldn't have needed to "flood the earth". That is if you believe that sort of thing to begin with.

There... god is fallable. I could bring to light quite a few more instances, but I'm willing to bet you'll retreat back to the same thing that every Christian does... which is "Oh, that's what God planned to do", as if by some means you could bring human reasoning to your God which you so adamently claim is impossible. So, you see, I'd really like you to explain your stance PV...

What I would really like though is if One allegiance, and yourself, decided to actually give us Extra-Biblical references... but I can see that isn't going to happen.

cajela

Ah, but man is fallible. So the bible is fallible. So when the bible says god is fallible, the bible is wrong

one allegiance

Man's imperfections does nothing to God's perfection. We have free will, which is the source of evil, not God. God knew evil would happen simply b/c he has foreknowledge. He gave us free will to be able to CHOOSE him or reject him. God doesn't force us to choose something. He also gave us free will to be able to feel and give the greatest good, love. If he denies us free will to get rid of evil, it will actually be a greater evil, b/c we can no longer love. God isn't the cause of evil, it is contradicting to his nature.

Nope.

Please do.

Your right...nobody knows what God's plan is.

Every stitch of evidence I bring up seems to be lacking. Josephus, The Talmud (early writings in mushni (sp)), Pliny the Younger, Tacitus, Suetonius, Thallus, Phlegon, Mara Bar-Serapion, Lucian, and Hadrian are all insufficient references on this board. I'm simply done attempting to present it b/c there are too many presuppositions here that will throw out any evidence given on this issue, no matter what is presented.

Alexander Pink

Yes and since the Bible is the only "evidence" for the alleged existence of God, God doesn't exist! The Bible proves it :rolling:Fundy logic at work there.

Alexander Pink

Isn't this threads topic extra bilical evidence :huh: You're reconciliation of Judas death is absurd. As others have pointed out how can a man fall face first from a hanging position? But this is outside of the topic of the thread, I like other people would love to see any extra biblical evidence...the problem simply is that none exists, and thus there is no compelling reason to accept the existence of such a man.

cajela

You've been clearly told what's wrong with them, and it's nothing to do with presuppositions. They simply don't support your case.

Pliny, Suetonius & Tacitus are the only ones I'm familiar with, from meddling in classics & ancient history long ago. And not one of them mentions Jesus. They mention Christians, that's all. They are quite sufficient evidence to me that Christians existed. But the evidence of Christians is no more proof of Jesus than the evidence of Jupiter temples is proof of Jupiter, or the existence of Mithrains is proof of Mithras.

ddc0708

So let me see if I understand you correctly. God isn't the source of evil, we are, due to the free will he gave us? That is your logic? That is like a father giving his kid a gun, leaving, then coming home to his kid having killed his friend with that gun. Who is at fault, the kid or the dad? Bad parenting maybe? ... same scenario. You lack logic.

On your quote about "God isn't evil it is contradicting to his nature". For most Judea-Christians, God created everything. Therefore, god created evil. I don't believe that God is the creator as I'm obviously an atheist, but for argument's sake I'll play into your little world that you've bought into.

God creates man. God gives man free will. Man takes up sin with free will. So I ask you, where did sin come from? Sorry to touch on morality here, but your logic is horrible on this one bud.

Yes... and here is why/some more.


**The human body isn't perfect. One could argue that we could live longer in case they didn't "find God in time". Or for that matter, we wouldn't have ailments or suffering.

**Who made God? He can't be perfect and not have his existence justified.

**God's entire nature is supposed to be that of moral and goodness, yet Christians claim that he is the basis for morality. If he is the basis for morality and goodness, then how is evil in the world? Your claim that humans are the cause is stupid and I dismiss it. Either way you cut it, God is fallible in the aspect of morality.

However, you will again retreat to the "unkown stance" where no one knows why God did it... he just did it... didn't he.

**God is vain and masochistic. He makes us humans spend our entire lives to seek him out, when all he would have to do is show himself. He permits suffering and evil and all of the things that are the "antithesis of him", yet he is all powerful, all loving, and all knowing.

I could go on forever with this, but everything about the Judea-Christian god is ill in logic, and completely fallible. You're just too blind to admit it.


You're right, I don't know what Santa Clause's plan is either



I apologize for bringin Morality and the other stuff into this discussion.

However, after 12 pages of back and forth, I think it is safe to say that we're not going to get extra biblical evidence from them to support their claim. Everything you've stated has enough time in between when it was written and when Christ, if he existed even, died. Therefore, we refute it unless you show us something outside of the bible with relative closeness in time to Christ dying.

TomboyMom

You are cracking me up!!! It's different from your other answer, and quite creative, I must say. So let me get this: Judas gives the elders the money. Then he leaves and hangs himself. So now he's dead. But the elders take his money and buy a field with it. The (now dead) Judas falls down in the field and bursts asunder. That's even better than the last one! :rolling:
Why don't you just admit that there are two versions of the story that differ from each other, one in which he hanged himself, and one in which he fell down in a field? It's clear that's what your bible says.

Jedi Mind Trick

Yes and there is Sai Baba (The Miracle Worker), Benjamin Creme's Maitreya (The New Messiah), Bahá’u’lláh(Prophet), Sabbati Sevi (Messiah), David Koresh (still expected by some to raise from the dead) and just about every Messiah, Prophet, faith healer, psychic and trickster -and Within many their own lifetimes.

Besides, if the story of Jesus was intentional fiction or a religious myth from the begining then we have something of a moot point.