Soralis

Most of the errors you have made are because you extrapolate, assuming that all of these processes are linear, or even exponential.

This is along the lines of going to the beach, and seeing the tide coming in. If you calculated the rate at which it was coming in, and assumed a linear progression, you would find that the whole planet would be covered with water in perhaps just a few weeks. Likewise, you might conclude that there was no water on the planet a few weeks ago, because the water would have receded to the point that there weren't any oceans anymore.

One that I'm well familiar with is the magnetic field, it certainly does not follow the progression you describe, the magnetic field tends to undergo periodic reversals, it will decrease in strength for a while, until it gets down to it's lowest point, and start gaining strength again with an opposite polarity. These reversals are seen recorded in the patterns of iron and such when they were molten, and subsequently solidified, recording the direction of earth's magnetic field at that time. Mainly from the mid-Atlantic ridge, where the same patterns can be found on both sides of the ridge as the magma cooled and moved out from there.

Many of the others you can find refutations for at http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/index.html which was mentioned above.

Vorkosigan

Actually, the radical on top isn't a "table" but a "knife" as I recall. But either way it isn't "eight."

Nope, I just looked it up at Zhongwen.com. The upper radical of "yan" is neither a knife nor a table, but is in fact a worn down form of the radical for "water" that is now written as a stylized "eight." "Yan" originally meant "ravine" and is composed of water entering drainage outlets. The bottom is not a "mouth" but an "outlet."

Vorkosigan

Avatar

Good grief, Petri. Every single one of your "proofs" have been disproved and discredited for years. Have you bothered to read any of the links anyone has provided you?

PetriFB

Initial moment of the mankind is one of the matter, which refer also to very short periods. This initial moment is often tried to move to be earlier than it really is.

However for example radiocarbon method's developer, professor W.F. Libby, said in his time in Science newspaper 3.3.1961 (p. 624), that verified history doesn't reach behind as about 5000 years :

" Arnold (co-worker) we got our first shock when we stating, that history reaches only 5000 years backwards. .. Often got to read, that it and it culture or archeological place is 20,000 years old. We learn rather quickly, that these figures, these early terms is not known accurately and that the time of first dynasty of Egypt is as a matter of fact oldest confirmed historical term on the tolerable assurance ." (4) *

And same encyclopedia The World book (1966, 6 part, p. 12) has been written:

" Earlier memory note, which we have person from the history, within reach only about 5000 year backwards."

History of the man can't thus reach very afar. This same provable also archeological discoveries. These discoveries proves, that such matters as using metal's, ceramics, building's, penmanship and farming they all have come apparent simultaneously to world only some centuries ago; and for example stories about that, what would have taken place over 10,000 or 40,000 years ago, are generally more or less invented, and not those be able in any way to prove.

In any case is also explanation to it, why these matters became apparent this late and simultaneously: explanation is, that people simply has not been earlier existing and not occupying the earth. In that when settlement has started initially from Middle East to spread elsewhere, and when population has grown (Gen 1:28: " Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. ..") , so are such places as North- and South America and Australia occupied mainly just after 1700's, when they got residents in favour of immigration. Filling of the earth from residents mainly just this late indicate thus, that not mankind initial moment can be as behind some millenniums.

______________________________________


*When professor Libby refers to the dynasties of Egypt (see. backwards! ), so is stated, that even information from their timing don't neccessarily is correct. Often in timing of history is put large value to these catalogues, which has preparation from rulers.

However with Egyptians themselves has not been anything these kinds of catalogues, just they are all compiled centuries ago by way of other people ( Manethon about 285 before Christ).

In addition for example Herodotos has mentioned, that in Egypt has been at one time at least 12 kings - in other words if this matter is true, makes merely this matter of these catalogues compiled rulers to be very uncertain and lead to the fact, that many rulers are assumed to lived early than they as a matter of fact have lived. Margin for error in these catalogues can be centuries. (That, how uncertain these catalogues are, and how they can include even fault of centuries; in Finland's television presented in November-December 1996 3 part series "Pharaohs and kings." )

__________________________________________________ ___________


Growth of population


Also not growth of population support thought, that mankind initial moment would be someplace a long distance in ancient. From this indicate next examples,:

- According to calculation amount of the population doubles always between 400 years (have been presented even shorter times to this doubles. In addition is noticeable, that earlier has not been abortion and prevention in same amount as nowadays. ). And if as the basis would be used this speed of doubles and thought about that, that people might have been exist already 16,000 years ago, would be in this time (16,000 year ) current amount of population to be about 1 099 510,000 000, which is almost 200 times larger than current amount of the people. This indicate, that if mankind initial moment is pushed very afar in other words behind over 10,000 year, should on the globe of the population be much larger than current amount.

- If would be used as the basis before being speed of doubles (population doubles between 400 years) if we go backwards in the time 4000 years, then should be on the globe over 1000 times current less residents in other words only about 5 million resident. This feels quite right estimate.

- If 100,000 years ago might have been only 2 residents and population doubles speed would be once thousand year, then must current population amount be 2 535 300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 000. This is quite absurd figure as compared to current to 6 billion (= 6,000,000,000), and indicate, that people not could have been at that time exist.

- Current population growth rate of the Globe is about 1,7 % in year, and if this same growth rate would have continued only time of 1300 years, so it would be enough to bring current amount of 6 billion human. Thus this indicate, that the globe can come to occupied already quite short of time, and not there at all need even tens of thousands of years just as has been presented.


Radioactivity measurements


When there is tried to define age, so one of the most important method has held radioactive measurements, which are based on that, that with the radioactive substance should be generally certain time, where they change and break up to be other elements. And for example uranium in lead methods should uranium changes always completely for the lead according to the same speed and when certain time has passed.

But are these methods reliable? If in the light of the next examples is examined this matter, indicate them rather, that current contents of the stones can measure, but defining of the age is based to the hypothesises, which can't prove:


What is initial situation?


First problem from the point of view of the measurements is, how now can be known, what was initial situation of the material from the first. In that even though in the stone would be uranium for example 13% and rest is lead, is in any case impossible to know original situation. Whole thing is based on more mere hypothesis and guess, and that can't prove.

Into question is little similar matter, as if the table is 7 pieces of cake and 5 biscuits, and then should know the original amount. Indicating of it is completely impossible, if itself has not been from the first at the place checking the situation.

Merely the uncertainty of the departure situation prevents it, thus that measurements could be on the reliable base. To the weak initial situation reliability we can't build any age measurement method.

Weltall

Seeing that he followed up your post with more of the same, I think the answer would be 'No'. I never thought I'd ever see the 'human population growth' argument again. :banghead:

GodLessWarrior

I thought that this topic would be about the wonders of the google search engine.....

.... PetriFB

... you need to start responding to criticism. You are rehashing very old arguments that hold no weight. You might want to try having a DISCUSSION on a single topic instead of wasting everyones time.

~GodLEss

Advocatus Diaboli

Petri, you wouldn't happen to own a book called Unohdettu Genesis by Dr. Pekka Reinikainen[YEC]?

Someone already gave a link to AiG's Arguments creationists should NOT use-page, so I'll only say that please, please, read it and delete those parts from your pages. It doesnt' help, if you copy & paste stuff that even AiG tries to stear clear off. Oh, and Pekka Reinikainen does use material from AiG, but apparently he has not read their Arguments to avoid-page.

Please stay here and learn.

Heippa!
:wave:

RBH

PetriFB,

If your postings are a translation of a published work, we may have a copyright issue here. Are you posting your own words, or translating from a Finnish source?

RBH
E/C Moderator

PetriFB

If all have got their beginning from one initial cell, is one of difficulty explains abundance from current kinds. In other words why not for example simple gliding or moss have filled the globe, instead of that we can nowadays see all kinds of animals in the water, on the air, on the earth and also underground of the earth and diverse and plentiful vegetation? This is difficult explain merely " from the base of the simple" initial cell .

On the other hand quite similar problem are also elaborate organs and complicated structures and if they have not been immediately as the ready. How them could manage on the half finished construction?

In the following we examine some these kinds of complicated structures. We get started from digestion organs of the research and we move then to other complicated construction.

Digestive system. If digestive system wouldn't been immediately as the ready, would be faced for instance the following difficulties:


- If mouth has not been immediately as the ready, so by what way the food then went inside of stomach? Would it remained outside, in that way would come death to hunger?

- If gullet has not been immediately as the ready, so where food would be in that case gone; or would it be still remained to the mouth from the station of the stomach? Also in that case would be as the consequence been the dieing to the hunger.

- In addition to the gullet, is also the stomach must be as the ready, because where the food would be in that case stored?

- Even though previous phases were in order, but if vascular system would not have been immediately as the ready, would it prevented absorption of nourishment to the circulation and by way of that also to the other parts of the body. Also in this case would be as the consequence; dieing to the hunger.

- In addition to all previous phases, would be of course also the final stages of digestion in other words urine and defecation must be immediately as the ready, because if they don't, could this way go badly.

The breath and circulation. If breath and circulation wouldn't been immediately as the ready, would be about that followed the following problems:

- if windpipe and lungs have not been immediately as the ready, so would be about that soon followed oxygen deficiency and choking in other words fast death.

- Heart would be immediately pump so, that oxygenated blood would have let to every cell of the body. If this wouldn't have taken place would be in that as the consequence fast death.

- The blood and veins should be as the ready, so that with the oxygenated blood might have been access to every single cell of the body. Or if blood would have ceased to come some part from the body, would it caused that part gangrene.

- With the blood should have been also another task: it had to transport carbon dioxide and other waste products off from the way of new oxygen and new nutrient. If this cleansing task wouldn't have taken place immediately, would it too prevented for normal breathing.

Hands, feet, senses and reproductive organs. If hands, feet, senses and reproductive organs wouldn't been immediately as the ready, would be faced the following difficulties:

- If hands and feet have not been as the ready, so we can ask, how the living thing could move before? In other words we can ask, that would then be only in one place all the time, cause they canät move anywhere or do they wait perhaps, that food only would drip down to their mouth, so that doesn't move anywhere? These questions can be presented and we can to wonder how food acquisition and other life might have been generally possible beingin the one place.

- If eyes have not been immediately as the ready, so how before that were seen to live and to search for food, or would searching for food had been mere probe and groping?

Same forming of the eye by itself - besides number of times in the different kinds - might have been problematic. How accident has generally been able to know from necessity of eyesight (same problem concern also other senses such as hearing, smell, taste and sense of feeling) and what benefit is from the half finished eye, whereby not yet see anything? Even also Darwin had to admit, that developing of the eye by itself would be quite impossible thought:

Presumption, that eye with all its inimitable structures, which focus picture different distances, regulate amount of the light, fixes ball deviation and chromatic aberration (colour deviation), could form as the consequence of nature selection is, I will admit openly, what in the larger amount absurd. .. Belief, that organ like eye could have formed by way of the nature selection, is embarrassing. (Shute, E., "Flaws in the Theory of Evolution", Craig Press, Nutley, New Jersey, 1961, pp. 127-128)

- From increasing we can to think, that how increase took place before was reproductive organs. In that isn't increase organs should have been immediately as the ready, because otherwise would have immediately threatened the dieing to the extinction?

Same good question is, that how generally male and female genitals and cells, which fit one another could to develop apart each other and in the different individuals? Isn't it should have been quite impossible? The love and also awakening of interest between the different sex, is also enigma. How such matter could develop from the initial cell?

And on the other hand the dieing to the extinction would have threatened also in that case if for example womb, embryo and channel of birth and protected nourishment wouldn't be immediately as the ready. And actually must be as the ready to all, which are connected to increase organs and phase, otherwise life could not have continued. It, that all these would be born spontaneously and just by itself, is however so imaginary, that it is worth ti us a little suspect this theory.

Large entirety. One enigma are large entirety, in which have many parts. How they could form by the degrees? In that for example in central body are many important organs and same also in the area of the head is many important organs (in central body; heart, lungs, pay, kidneys, pancreas, reproductive organs, stomach and besides hands. In the area of the head are eyes, nose, ear, brain, mouth and in the mouth also functions such as drinking, eating, taste, breath and speech. ).

And if some of these organs would have been just in the formation - by forming muscles, nerves and veins in other words connections elsewhere - so isn't it this way would have harmed other organ's activity, because all the parts of the body are dependent from one another? Thus we can ask, that if all these parts have not been immediately as the ready, so how they were able to form later? And if they wouldn't been immediately as the ready, how could on the whole stay alive?

PetriFB

I'm trying very thoroughly go through the evidences, which are defending creation and not evolution. So it is good to read them very accurate and think, that is there any sense. And it is good to stop thinking and start thinking about the things very honest way.

In my picture of the world is not possible to trust accident, which has started that kind of development like evolutionist believes.

It is much sensible and rationale to believe, that somebody has created and planned all this marvellous and awesome globe and solar system.