Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ChandraRama · 04-10-2008, 12:53 PM

I just now completed "God Delusion (or via: amazon.co.uk)"

What surprised me is a reference in the book about who will be sent to heaven. It is said in revelation that 140000 (12k each of a jewish tribe) would go to heaven.And that too virgin males.

How on earth the christianity expanded, and included more gentiles as "saved" and keep on expanding?

What justification is given by Christian authors to sell the revelation to the gentiles?

2-J · 04-10-2008, 12:54 PM

"It's a metaphor" would, I imagine, figure as part of many Christian responses.

Toto · 04-10-2008, 01:26 PM

This is from the Revelation of John, chapters 7 and 14:

Chapter 14: The 144,000 and the Victorious Judgment of the Lamb

"1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having His Father's Name written in their foreheads."

Very few Christians take the Revelation of John literally. Most consider it to be a highly symbolic work of art, if not the result of ingesting some non-prescription pharmaceuticals. But there is a minority who look to Revelation for the key to current events, to the embarrassment of more mainstream Christians. These are the people waiting for the Rapture, and also the Jehovah's Witnesses who come knocking on your door.

The Catholic Church has put out a helpful guide to dealing with the door knockers:

Quote:

Look up Revelation 7 and read it from beginning to end. You'll notice that if the seventh chapter of Revelation is to be taken literally, heaven would consist of 144,000 Jewish male virgins who were taken from a square-shaped earth and are now worshiping a sheep. This would mean that Peter (not a virgin), the Blessed Mother (not a male), and Jehovah's Witnesses founder Charles Taze Russell (not a Jew) could not be in heaven.

Beyond this, we see in Revelation 14 that the 144,000 stand before the twenty-four elders from Revelation 4:4. This brings the grand total to 144,024 total people. But Scripture indicates that there are still more. Revelation 7:9 speaks of a countless multitude before the throne, which is in heaven (Rev. 14:2-3). We read also that all those with their name in the book of life are in heaven (Rev. 21:27), while all whose names are not in the book of life are thrown into the pool of fire (Rev. 20:15). There is no third "earthly" class.

ChandraRama · 04-10-2008, 01:58 PM

//Revelation is to be taken literally, heaven would consist of 144,000 Jewish male virgins who were taken from a square-shaped earth and are now worshiping a sheep.//

Ha!

I never could imagine Catholic church would shoot itself in its foot!

2-J · 04-10-2008, 02:25 PM

But the Catholic Church don't argue that the Bible must be read literally at all times. In fact, they're well known for arguing that you need the Church to help you interpret the Bible.

Darklighter · 04-10-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

This is from the Revelation of John, chapters 7 and 14:

Chapter 14: The 144,000 and the Victorious Judgment of the Lamb

"1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with Him an hundred forty and four thousand, having His Father's Name written in their foreheads."

Very few Christians take the Revelation of John literally. Most consider it to be a highly symbolic work of art, if not the result of ingesting some non-prescription pharmaceuticals. But there is a minority who look to Revelation for the key to current events, to the embarrassment of more mainstream Christians. These are the people waiting for the Rapture, and also the Jehovah's Witnesses who come knocking on your door.

The Catholic Church has put out a helpful guide to dealing with the door knockers:

Quote:

Look up Revelation 7 and read it from beginning to end. You'll notice that if the seventh chapter of Revelation is to be taken literally, heaven would consist of 144,000 Jewish male virgins who were taken from a square-shaped earth and are now worshiping a sheep. This would mean that Peter (not a virgin), the Blessed Mother (not a male), and Jehovah's Witnesses founder Charles Taze Russell (not a Jew) could not be in heaven.

Beyond this, we see in Revelation 14 that the 144,000 stand before the twenty-four elders from Revelation 4:4. This brings the grand total to 144,024 total people. But Scripture indicates that there are still more. Revelation 7:9 speaks of a countless multitude before the throne, which is in heaven (Rev. 14:2-3). We read also that all those with their name in the book of life are in heaven (Rev. 21:27), while all whose names are not in the book of life are thrown into the pool of fire (Rev. 20:15). There is no third "earthly" class.

Indeed. The JW interpretation of Revelation is a glaring example of cherry-picking what is literal and what isn't. How they reason that the 144,000 is in heaven but the next mentioned group, the innumerable "great crowd" that is before the throne isn't in heaven, is beyond me.

But personally, I like your work-of-art/non-perscription-pharmaceuticals interpretation.

After all the Greek word for spritism and magic was pharmakia, me thinks.

Kosh · 04-11-2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChandraRama

//Revelation is to be taken literally, heaven would consist of 144,000 Jewish male virgins who were taken from a square-shaped earth and are now worshiping a sheep.//

Ha!

I never could imagine Catholic church would shoot itself in its foot!

All those Muslim suicide bombers are gonna be PISSED when they learn the true nature of their 72 virgins!

04-10-2008, 12:53 PM	#1
ChandraRama Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: US Posts: 107	144000 jewish virgin males? I just now completed "God Delusion (or via: amazon.co.uk)" What surprised me is a reference in the book about who will be sent to heaven. It is said in revelation that 140000 (12k each of a jewish tribe) would go to heaven.And that too virgin males. How on earth the christianity expanded, and included more gentiles as "saved" and keep on expanding? What justification is given by Christian authors to sell the revelation to the gentiles?

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04-10-2008, 12:54 PM	#2
2-J Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: UK Posts: 179	"It's a metaphor" would, I imagine, figure as part of many Christian responses.

04-10-2008, 01:58 PM	#4
ChandraRama Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: US Posts: 107	//Revelation is to be taken literally, heaven would consist of 144,000 Jewish male virgins who were taken from a square-shaped earth and are now worshiping a sheep.// Ha! I never could imagine Catholic church would shoot itself in its foot!

04-10-2008, 02:25 PM	#5
2-J Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: UK Posts: 179	But the Catholic Church don't argue that the Bible must be read literally at all times. In fact, they're well known for arguing that you need the Church to help you interpret the Bible.

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