bacht

I don't agree with the thesis of this thread, that Christianity brought human rights into the world. But I also don't agree with demonizing post-Roman Europeans in comparison to their contemporaries in Africa, Asia and Central America.

For centuries after the fall of the western empire, Europeans were desperately fighting off barbarians and Muslims in an economically and politically reduced situation. When urban life and affluence revived, the world of ideas was able to develop again, which led eventually to the Renaissance, Reformation, Scientific Revolution and Enlightenment.

It could be argued that the church filled a void in European culture during the Dark Ages. Its relevance afterward is more debatable.

Joan of Bark

The point being, Europe's contemporaries didn't have the benefit of being Christian, which is supposed to make everyone loving and merciful.


The Dark Ages did not encapsulate all of Medievel Europe. Long before the Scientific Revolution Europe had stabilized and was not under any great threat from the rest of the world, yet even in the High Middle Ages human rights were virtually non-existent -- except for the nobility.

The point I'm trying to get across is that we skeptics have to listen to a steady stream of rhetoric about how wonderful Christianity is and how (it is implied) if everyone were Christian we would be living in an ideal world. Once upon a time in Europe everyone was Christian -- and it was far from ideal.

bacht

I agree. I don't think Christianity, in its ethical teachings, was radically different from other traditions, such as Hinduism. Most established religions say much the same things: be good, be peaceful, be mature etc. Human nature is the problem imo, not the rules of any particular tradition.

I just get tired of West-bashing, which has been fashionable since at least WWI. And Christianity is part of our heritage, for better or worse. I neither embrace it or condemn it. Dismissing it out-of-hand is a child's game.

As far as human rights, the burghers were probably the first in medieval Europe to push beyond the feudal system of rights and obligations. Financial power separated from the hereditary principle seems to be the driver, but I'm no expert in such things.