Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Julian · 01-18-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDS

The story is important and significant -- whether it actually happened or not.

If it didn't happen, then the story is neither important nor significant, only its effects on its believers, and their effect on society, can be classified in that manner.

If it did happen, then it would important and significant.

Julian

BDS · 01-18-2006, 01:11 PM

I admit that if it did happen it would be signficant.

It's also significant even though it didn't happen. It's signficance is both in its impact on believers, and in its impact on non-believers. It is also intrinically significant -- like other great works of literature.

TySixtus · 01-18-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDS

I admit that if it did happen it would be signficant.

So then what is your stance on the Ressurection? Did it happen?

Quote:

It's also significant even though it didn't happen.

Stuff that never happened is insignificant. Now, the writings/mythologies that pop up surrounding the bullshit events are significant, sure. But that doens't make them correct.

And when your whole religion (Christianity) is based around having "The Truth", stories based around shit that never happened sort of robs you of your claim of "Truthful".

Ty

Toto · 01-18-2006, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDS

I'm not an expert on ancient history. However, I'll bet that some stories from Greek and Roman historians (Plutarch, et. al.) are based on "evidence" not much sounder than those on which the Gospels are based.

. . . .

But you won't find modern critical historians insisting that they are true, or bothering to claim that they are evidence of anything real - absent an ulterior motive, such as proving the historical connections between some modern Balkan state and Alexander the Great.

And as to your argument, do you claim that it doesn't matter if Luke Skywalker existed or not? If some Star Wars fan claimed that Luke was real, would you not classify that person as somehow disconnected from reality?

Amaleq13 · 01-18-2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDS

Atheists who care about the historical "evidence" or details remind me of their Christian equivalents -- Fundamentalists.

There is a pretty significant difference, actually. The atheists, at least those here, tend to be responding to assertions of historicity made by others.

BDS · 01-18-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TySixtus

So then what is your stance on the Ressurection? Did it happen?

I don't know, and I don't care.

Quote:

Stuff that never happened is insignificant. Now, the writings/mythologies that pop up surrounding the bullshit events are significant, sure. But that doens't make them correct.

And when your whole religion (Christianity) is based around having "The Truth", stories based around shit that never happened sort of robs you of your claim of "Truthful".

Ty

I have no idea what you are talking about. However, you appear to have no idea what the word "significant" means.

Sven · 01-18-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

Silliness is not the issue, truth is. My thoughts concerning the silliness or not of an idea has no bearing on it's truth. Though granted, apparent silliness could be indicative of untruthness, it does not guarantee it.
I did find some aspects of qunatum mechanics hard to fathom. Does this mean they are not true? Of course not!

Problem is of course that Christians make silly claim without providing any evidence for their truth. So your analogy to quantum physics is, well, bullshit.

Sven · 01-18-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Arthur Patzia

The Making of the New Testament is rated very highly by JP Holding.

Thanks for giving this reference!

See, hatsoff, that's one. I hope you learned something.

Interestingly, the second reviewer at amazon notes that the book is not overly scholary.

Sven · 01-18-2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

I have never understood the certainty that some have that the aforementioned people cannot be trusted. They would have had access to documentation/records that due to the ravages of time, war, natural disasters etc:, are now lost to us.

Of course they would have this. On the other hand, they also would have an axe to grind. :wave:

Sven · 01-18-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatsoff

I didn't feel like looking up exact quotations and page numbers. If you want to do that, you're welcome to.

May I remind you who is making the claim here?

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01-18-2006, 01:11 PM	#112
BDS Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Eugene, OR, USA Posts: 3,187	I admit that if it did happen it would be signficant. It's also significant even though it didn't happen. It's signficance is both in its impact on believers, and in its impact on non-believers. It is also intrinically significant -- like other great works of literature.

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