Freethought & Rationalism Archive

skepticdude · 10-18-2009, 01:47 PM

Most Christians, upon hearing a person thank them, say "don't thank me, thank Jesus."

This is not hyperbole. They will insist that they are nothing but dust and deserve nothing but hell-fire, but for the Grace of God. They seriously mean that they had as little to do with the good work in question as moon dust in China did.

Which makes us wonder how God plans on "rewarding" Christians in the afterlife, since, by their own admission, NONE of the credit for the good deed goes to the sinner:

Quote:

Mat 5:12 "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Mat 5:46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 6:1 "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
Mat 6:2 "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Mat 6:4 so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees {what is done} in secret will reward you.
Mat 6:5 "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Mat 6:6 "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees {what is done} in secret will reward you.
Mat 6:16 "Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites {do,} for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Mat 6:18 so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees {what is done} in secret will reward you.
Mat 10:41 "He who receives a prophet in {the} name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
Mat 10:42 "And whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink, truly I say to you, he shall not lose his reward."
Mar 9:41 "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as {followers} of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.
Luk 6:23 "Be glad in that day and leap {for joy,} for behold, your reward is great in heaven. For in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets.
Luk 6:35 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil {men.}
1Cr 3:8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
1Cr 3:14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
1Cr 9:17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.
1Cr 9:18 What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.
Col 3:24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.
Hbr 10:35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
Hbr 11:26 considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.
2Jo 1:8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.
Rev 11:18 "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time {came} for the dead to be judged, and {the time} to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."
Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward {is} with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

If the modern fundamentalist is correct to say that every good work they do, isn't really themselves doing it, but Christ within them, then by their own admission, they have not done anything, and the reward should not go to them but to Jesus alone. If this view is true, then God's rewarding them for "their" good works is about as unjust as an employer giving your paycheck to a different employee.

How is it then that Christians will be "rewarded" for their good works in the afterworld, if in fact, by their own admission, they were NOT the person doing the good works?

I think I'll go ask the next fundamentlist Christian I see, to sign their paycheck over to me. After all, if they didn't do the work to earn it, they at least know THEY don't "deserve" the money, right?

Let's see if I have this down now: When do you a good work as a Christian, you did not do it.

Correct?

mountainman · 10-18-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skepticdude

Let's see if I have this down now: When do you a good work as a Christian, you did not do it.

Correct?

Are "Christian Soldiers" not automatically absolved from their "good work" in today's world as they have been since their miraculous and unexpected victory at the Milvian Bridge?

rizdek · 10-22-2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skepticdude

Most Christians, upon hearing a person thank them, say "don't thank me, thank Jesus."

This is not hyperbole. They will insist that they are nothing but dust and deserve nothing but hell-fire, but for the Grace of God. They seriously mean that they had as little to do with the good work in question as moon dust in China did.

Which makes us wonder how God plans on "rewarding" Christians in the afterlife, since, by their own admission, NONE of the credit for the good deed goes to the sinner:

Quote:

Mat 5:12 "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Mat 5:46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 6:1 "Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
Mat 6:2 "So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Mat 6:4 so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees {what is done} in secret will reward you.
Mat 6:5 "When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Mat 6:6 "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees {what is done} in secret will reward you.
Mat 6:16 "Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites {do,} for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Mat 6:18 so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees {what is done} in secret will reward you.
Mat 10:41 "He who receives a prophet in {the} name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
Mat 10:42 "And whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink, truly I say to you, he shall not lose his reward."
Mar 9:41 "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as {followers} of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward.
Luk 6:23 "Be glad in that day and leap {for joy,} for behold, your reward is great in heaven. For in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets.
Luk 6:35 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil {men.}
1Cr 3:8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
1Cr 3:14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
1Cr 9:17 For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.
1Cr 9:18 What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.
Col 3:24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.
Hbr 10:35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
Hbr 11:26 considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.
2Jo 1:8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.
Rev 11:18 "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time {came} for the dead to be judged, and {the time} to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."
Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward {is} with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

If the modern fundamentalist is correct to say that every good work they do, isn't really themselves doing it, but Christ within them, then by their own admission, they have not done anything, and the reward should not go to them but to Jesus alone. If this view is true, then God's rewarding them for "their" good works is about as unjust as an employer giving your paycheck to a different employee.

How is it then that Christians will be "rewarded" for their good works in the afterworld, if in fact, by their own admission, they were NOT the person doing the good works?

I think I'll go ask the next fundamentlist Christian I see, to sign their paycheck over to me. After all, if they didn't do the work to earn it, they at least know THEY don't "deserve" the money, right?

Let's see if I have this down now: When do you a good work as a Christian, you did not do it.

Correct?

Right, most christians believe they will be saved simply by "accepting" the gift of salvation. They think if they utter (silently or aloud) certain incantations especially acknowledging their sinfulness and invoking Jesus' name and his blood, they will be absolved of wrongdoing and win their reward. It really has nothing to do with good works. You see, Jesus already paid the price (punishment) for all sins when he was crucified. So, no one is/will be actually punished for sins. They will be punished/rewarded completely based on their beliefs relative to Jesus and their acceptance of his gift of salvation.

That's why christians can pretend they don't need thanks or acknowledgement for their good works. But...for most, I dare you to start not thanking them for their good deeds they do for you and see how steamed they get. Very few actually live like they preach.

Failte · 10-22-2009, 02:24 PM

While I totally see your point, and believe you have an accurate view of how they think and why they do what they do...

...I have never in my life heard a christian say "don't thank me, thank Jesus." when I say thank you to them.

Mageth · 10-22-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failte

While I totally see your point, and believe you have an accurate view of how they think and why they do what they do...

...I have never in my life heard a christian say "don't thank me, thank Jesus." when I say thank you to them.

They (some of them, anyway) say it (or imply it) in other ways. It boils down to a belief in God wanting all glory attributed to him.

Failte · 10-22-2009, 07:53 PM

Oh, I am absolutely sure that some imply it -- the unspoken subtext in some of my conversations is pretty clear! I've just never heard the actual words.

But I tend to find the believers I know are more interested in begin recognized themselves for being 'good christians' than really giving any credit to god. Sure, they will give the ultimate credit to god, but being able to smugly announce how pious they are honestly seems to trump any actual goodness. So even if god really does want all the glory (and he's a selfish, childish deity, so its pretty clear that's true!), it's important for some believers to be seen as better or more god-like than everyone else.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

10-22-2009, 02:24 PM	#4
Failte Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,405	While I totally see your point, and believe you have an accurate view of how they think and why they do what they do... ...I have never in my life heard a christian say "don't thank me, thank Jesus." when I say thank you to them.

10-22-2009, 07:53 PM	#6
Failte Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,405	Oh, I am absolutely sure that some imply it -- the unspoken subtext in some of my conversations is pretty clear! I've just never heard the actual words. But I tend to find the believers I know are more interested in begin recognized themselves for being 'good christians' than really giving any credit to god. Sure, they will give the ultimate credit to god, but being able to smugly announce how pious they are honestly seems to trump any actual goodness. So even if god really does want all the glory (and he's a selfish, childish deity, so its pretty clear that's true!), it's important for some believers to be seen as better or more god-like than everyone else.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.