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Old 03-15-2004, 09:05 PM   #21
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Children are sinners to be killed by God

Quote:
Originally posted by Amaleq13
At the risk of having this thread moved to Philosophy...

The "free" part of a "free choice" is the freedom to select from any of the available options.

If God knows beforehand that you will choose A, there is no possibility you might choose B.

If there is no possibility you might choose B, the choice of A was not free.

The best you can obtain, in this circumstance, is the illusion that you were free to choose B.
All very good points. Here is where us Christians get stuck in this topic:

If I believe in a God that will guide me in my decisions, as I request guidance let me add, then I must acknowledge that that God knows what decision is best for me and what will transpire after that decision. If I don't acknowledge that then asking for guidance is in essence useless. Finally by me acknowledging this I accecpt that he is all knowing and accept that he knows what I will do, but in my mind I can't think or live my life from his position, I have to make the decisions placed before me, and before me is always multiple choices.
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Old 03-15-2004, 11:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
If I believe in a God that will guide me in my decisions, as I request guidance let me add, then I must acknowledge that that God knows what decision is best for me and what will transpire after that decision.
So was he guiding Josef Mengele . . . or Celine Dion?

To bring this back to BC&H, none of that is relevant to an explanation of why a good deity would require children destroyed.

--J.D.
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Old 03-16-2004, 01:06 AM   #23
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Children are sinners to be killed by God

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Originally posted by Mormon Mike
All very good points. Here is where us Christians get stuck in this topic:
If I believe in a God that will guide me in my decisions, as I request guidance let me add, then I must acknowledge that that God knows what decision is best for me and what will transpire after that decision. If I don't acknowledge that then asking for guidance is in essence useless. Finally by me acknowledging this I accecpt that he is all knowing and accept that he knows what I will do, but in my mind I can't think or live my life from his position
Please explain the relevance of the above to the answer of Amaleq13. He's exactly right: If God knows what we'll do, we don't have free will, only the illusion of free will.

Asking for guidance and which one is the best choice is wholly irrelevant here. Another nice example of a theist changing the topic when he can not answer a problem any more.

Quote:

I have to make the decisions placed before me, and before me is always multiple choices.
Yes. But you can only choose one, since God knows in advance which one you'll choose. Thus, in essence, you don't have multiple choices at all, only the illusion of it.
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Old 03-16-2004, 01:42 AM   #24
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Default Re: Re: Children are sinners to be killed by God

Quote:
Originally posted by Mormon Mike



Just because God knows what we will do, does this effect our ability to make our own decisions?
Yes.

God knows what we will do, even in situations where we never actually make the choice, because those situations happen never to have come up.
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Old 03-16-2004, 01:47 AM   #25
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Children are sinners to be killed by God

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Originally posted by Mormon Mike
If I believe in a God that will guide me in my decisions, as I request guidance let me add, then I must acknowledge that that God knows what decision is best for me and what will transpire after that decision.
So God has knowledge of what would happen in every branch of every decision you take.

When was that knowledge created? When did you make those free will decisions in EACH of those branches? You never did and you never can, yet God infallibly knows all of them.
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Old 03-16-2004, 01:49 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doctor X
[
To bring this back to BC&H, none of that is relevant to an explanation of why a good deity would require children destroyed.
Because the Christian Cadre, of which Layman, Bede and Metacrock are members, say that those children would have grown up to be evil.

Although God's plan since eternity for these children was for them to be killed in childhood.
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Old 03-16-2004, 01:52 AM   #27
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Ah . . . efficiency!

However, one may well wonder why he would bother giving them souls if he knew he would have to squish them.

The lengths apologists will go to salvage a belief remains truly extraordinary.

--J.D.
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Old 03-16-2004, 03:04 AM   #28
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From the conclusion of the OP website:

"Satan used the Amalekites as his prime weapon to achieve this goal, and God used his chosen people to stop Satan’s plans."

Ah ha, so after all it is just like the movie "Jason and the Argonauts" were God and the other supernatural entities are manipulating us like pieces on chessboard.
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