Freethought & Rationalism Archive

IBelieveInHymn · 09-23-2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

IBIH,

Is there anything that would convince you that you are wrong in your beliefs? Are you infallible?

No one, no atheist, no Hindu, no Buddhist, no Muslim will ever convince me that I'm wrong. I believe God is perfect and just.

IBelieveInHymn · 09-23-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katastrophikus

I have your say-so versue the say-so of other true believing Christians. How can I tell who is right? The texts, if you're going to follow the completely unsupported idea of a single Antichrist and the rapture, certainly seems to support them, no matter how much you roll your eyes.

Yes, I admit there are a variety of different beliefs in the Christian religion. But whether the anti-christ is the son of Satan is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if Christians disagree on this and that. The bottom line is we all seek salvation through Jesus Christ. That is the point of Christianity. As for the anti-christ being the son of Satan. No one knows that for sure. The AntiChrist will be a mysterious figure that will rebel against God in the earth's final hours.

Quote:

So, there's three of us in a line on the edge of a cliff. I am the furthest back and I push the second person who, in falling off the cliff, takes the third person with them. The second person is actually responsible for the fall?

No, in reality, you are responsible for their fall. But God does not push anyone off a cliff. That is your own freewill to jump off that cliff.

Quote:

Sarcasm aside, it is quite clear that you are implying that God set a chain of events in motion that will doom fallible humans to an eternity of torture. Furthermore, his plan for mankind also entailed blaming the victims.

God did set a chain of events to take place. Prophecies are a sign of the end. Prophecies are like a guide book to mankind. We must pay attention to these signs. If not, we are all doomed to fall.

Deus Ex · 09-23-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

IBIH,

Is there anything that would convince you that you are wrong in your beliefs? Are you infallible?

No one, no atheist, no Hindu, no Buddhist, no Muslim will ever convince me that I'm wrong. I believe God is perfect and just.

I am referring more specifically to the Christian dogmas that you hold with absolute certainty. We are all fallible human beings prone to error. Is it not even slightly possible that some of your religious beliefs are mistaken?

Do you believe the bible is without error?

IBelieveInHymn · 09-23-2009, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Virtue

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

Ezekiel 28:15 says Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways but, evil was found within him, and the evil was not placed there by God.

You're taking liberties with the text...isn't that a no no?

Deuteronomy 12: 32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

Looks like you're walking on thin ice. You, in your infinite wisdom, added the last part, "and the evil was not placed there by God."

How, pray tell, can a being, perfect in ALL ways, have evil in him? Let us remember that God isn't without tipping the scales in his favor, like when he hardened Pharaoh's heart several times so he could make his point.

For the record, let's look at what that scripture ACTUALLY says (from KJV)...

Quote:

Eze 28:15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Why are you twisting the scriptures?

If this was not your intention, I suggest being more careful when you quote.

Ezekiel 28:15 says reguarding Lucifer; "You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you".

If you notice, I did not quote the bible in my previous post when I said It was not placed there by God. That was my own words..

This verse is showing how Lucifer rebelled against God by using evilness. Only the wicked and evil will rebel against God.

http://bible.cc/ezekiel/28-15.htm

IBelieveInHymn · 09-23-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

I am referring more specifically to the Christian dogmas that you hold with absolute certainty. We are all fallible human beings prone to error. Is it not even slightly possible that some of your religious beliefs are mistaken?

My beliefs are really no different from a Sunday morning Preacher. If you walk into 100 Churches across the U.S, you will see probably 75 of them are talking about the same issues I am.

Quote:

Do you believe the bible is without error?

Of course the bible is without error or conflict. You can list a Bible contradiction, and I will search on Google for the answers. The answers are out there, for some reason, atheists don't search for them. but they are too concerned about researching the errors instead of the truth.

If you goto any "atheist website" that expresses Bible errors, you will notice they don't give any possible explanation. Why would you want to listen to people that don't give the answers to the problem? That doesn't sound like much of a teacher. that sounds biased. And quite frankly, I have no use for atheistic websites that claim 'the Bible is a lie.' These people are utterly clueless.

Dark Virtue · 09-23-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Virtue

You're taking liberties with the text...isn't that a no no?

Deuteronomy 12: 32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.

Looks like you're walking on thin ice. You, in your infinite wisdom, added the last part, "and the evil was not placed there by God."

How, pray tell, can a being, perfect in ALL ways, have evil in him? Let us remember that God isn't without tipping the scales in his favor, like when he hardened Pharaoh's heart several times so he could make his point.

For the record, let's look at what that scripture ACTUALLY says (from KJV)...

Why are you twisting the scriptures?

If this was not your intention, I suggest being more careful when you quote.

Ezekiel 28:15 says reguarding Lucifer; "You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you".

If you notice, I did not quote the bible in my previous post when I said It was not placed there by God. That was my own words..

This verse is showing how Lucifer rebelled against God by using evilness. Only the wicked and evil will rebel against God.

http://bible.cc/ezekiel/28-15.htm

My point was that you made absolutely NO distinction between your bible quote and your own words.

Sneaky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn
Ezekiel 28:15 says Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways but, evil was found within him, and the evil was not placed there by God.

See?

Dark Virtue · 09-23-2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

IBIH,

Is there anything that would convince you that you are wrong in your beliefs? Are you infallible?

No one, no atheist, no Hindu, no Buddhist, no Muslim will ever convince me that I'm wrong. I believe God is perfect and just.

Yet you expect us to have an open mind?

Why should we when you refuse to?

Deus Ex · 09-23-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

I am referring more specifically to the Christian dogmas that you hold with absolute certainty. We are all fallible human beings prone to error. Is it not even slightly possible that some of your religious beliefs are mistaken?

My beliefs are really no different from a Sunday morning Preacher. If you walk into 100 Churches across the U.S, you will see probably 75 of them are talking about the same issues I am.

This is the argumentum ad populum fallacy. Many Muslim mullahs will say the same thing; it does not make them right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

Do you believe the bible is without error?

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBIH

Of course the bible is without error or conflict. You can list a Bible contradiction, and I will search on Google for the answers. The answers are out there, for some reason, atheists don't search for them. but they are too concerned about researching the errors instead of the truth.

Why do you believe the bible to be without errors and not any other book written by humans?

Quote:

If you goto any "atheist website" that expresses Bible errors, you will notice they don't give any possible explanation. Why would you want to listen to people that don't give the answers to the problem? That doesn't sound like much of a teacher. that sounds biased. And quite frankly, I have no use for atheistic websites that claim 'the Bible is a lie.' These people are utterly clueless.

Many of the harmonizations of biblical contradictions sound contrived. You have made up your mind that the bible is the flawless word of God before you ever cracked the book open. The evidence is against your position.

show_no_mercy · 09-23-2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

II Peter says In the end of days, mankind will become lovers of greed and money before they are lovers of God.

When was 2 Peter written? Do you really think it was written by the Peter of the Jesus stories? Modern scholarship is almost unanimous that it wasn't written by Peter, Jesus' disciple. Hell, even Eusebius didn't think it was written by Peter when he wrote his "church history" in the early 4th century:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eusebius, Church History 3.3.1

One epistle of Peter, that called the first, is acknowledged as genuine. And this the ancient elders used freely in their own writings as an undisputed work. But we have learned that his extant second Epistle does not belong to the canon

So why are you taking 2 Peter as sacred scripture?

show_no_mercy · 09-23-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IBelieveInHymn

Ezekiel 28:15 says Lucifer

Why would Ezekiel be using a Latin word? Did the Latin language even exist in Ezekiel's lifetime?

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