mountainman

Here is my review of the new testament non-literary evidence,
largely consistent of epigraphic and papyri citations:
The Early Christian "Epigraphic Habit"

Best wishes,


Pete Brown

schilling.klaus

Original sin does not depend in any way on any event in physical human history. In paradise Adam and Eve are not yet in a physical body (coats of skin). Only by affirmation of the passions of the flesh does man fall into the curse of material existence and sexual procreation. Redemption implies the obliteration of this curse.
This is the continuation of the Orphic topic of the flesh being the tomb of the human soul.
The practical significance of original sin and redemption from it has been expressed by Julius Cassianus, known to Clement of A., using the lost pre-canonical Gospel according to the Egyptians.

Klaus Schilling

Chili

Adam and Eve never obtain a physical body but are the ego identities of man that are created in Gen.3 based of the application of the Tree of Knowledge and is identified in the shame-no shame dichotomy between Gen 2:25 where they were naked to wit and felt no shame and Gen.3:10 were they are no longer naked to wit and felt shame. Hence God's response "WHO told you that your were naked? in verse 11.

This should be obvious to everybody when we have God of Gen.1 as the essence of man, Lord God of Gen.2 in the form of this created essence (ex nihilo in Gen.1), and 'like god' of Gen.3 as an outsider trying to improve the image of God in the manifestation of God as Lord God so dominion can be ours at not cost by simply using the TOK for the benefit of the tribe (we call it thinking).

Original sin makes reference to the division in our mind between the subconscious and conscious mind there called the TOL and the TOK in Gen.3 and so our return to Eden will be after The Convergence of the[se] Twain.

http://http://plato.acadiau.ca/cours...e/converge.htm

OneInFundieville

Oh, now that all makes sense and makes it crystal clear.

Anyhow, I thought this thread was about evidence of bible characters. Would be most interested in hearing how the archaeological record and genetics support your creation myth.

Archer

One would think at least some of the more popular biblical characters,would of been given great tribute in the form of shrines.Like pharoes had.Also you would think there would be piles of written records of these people in a non religion context.Finally why would biblical god set it up such that we find piles of bones of dinosaurs but no bones/graves of these great characters? Inquirying minds want to know.......

yalla

http://www.ichrusa.com/courtyard/skulljohnbaptist.html

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1119913
"Today, there are more than four churches which claim to possess the skull of St. John the Baptist, including Amiens, Nemours, and St-Jean d'Angeli in France and S. Silvestro in Capite in Rome. The arguments over authenticity became so ludicrous, that at one point two churchs agreed that while one had the head of St. John the Baptist preserved after his beheading, the other, which possessed a much smaller skull, must have the head of John as a child."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_Baptist

"What became of the head of John the Baptist is difficult to determine. Nicephorus[10] and Symeon Metaphrastes say that Herodias had it buried in the fortress of Machaerus (in accordance with Josephus). Other writers say that it was interred in Herod's palace at Jerusalem; there it was found during the reign of Constantine I, and thence secretly taken to Emesa, in Phoenicia, where it was concealed, the place remaining unknown for years, until it was manifested by revelation in 453.

The Coptic Christian Orthodox Church also claim to hold the relics of St. John the Baptist. These are to be found in a monastery in Lower Egypt between Cairo and Alexandria. It is possible, with permission from the monks, to see the original tomb where the remains were found.


Tomb of St. John the Baptist at a Coptic monastery in Lower Egypt. The bones of St. John the Baptist were said to have been found here.‎

Over the centuries, there have been many discrepancies in the various legends and claimed relics throughout the Christian world. Several different locations claim to possess the severed head of John the Baptist. Among the various claimants are:[11]

The Knights Templar. In medieval times it was rumored that they had possession of the saint's severed head, and multiple records from their Inquisition in the early 1300s make reference to some form of head being worshiped by the Knights.[12]
San Silvestro in Capite in Rome
Amiens Cathedral, France, brought home by Wallon de Sarton from the Fourth Crusade in Constantinople.
Turkish Antioch
The Umayyad Mosque in Damascus[11]
Istanbul claims to possess the saint's arm and a piece of his skull in the Topkapi Palace, as does the Coptic Orthodox Monastery of Saint Macarius the Great in Scetes, Egypt,[13] while John's right hand, with which he baptised Jesus, is said to be in the possession of the Serbian Orthodox Cetinje monastery in Montenegro, and also at the Romanian skete of the Forerunner on Mount Athos."

There are plenty of heads of John around the place.

Archer

Yalla,great informative post thanx.Ok then if i was to choose to believe in john the baptist,(NOT)like the religious do,then I have to believe the evidence too.Since the claimed head was in several places at the same time,one can only conclude john had several heads attached to his body.Got it.:banghead:

reniaa

This is the problem because we know bible figures so well, people expect archaeology just to pop up with graves and suchlike, but as we know only famous/Rich people by whichever of the days measurement got inscribed onto stone work and suchlike, pontious pilate and herod are both leaders the bible mentions both rich/famous and so we do have archaeological evidence of them. These ones we know from bible so well were just sheep hearders, carpenters, prophets, nothing that would make the people of the day make any mention of them on the walls of tombs etc.

mg01

Actually there are lots of "first people" myths. The Norse had Ask and Embla, Hindu had Manu and Ananti, and the Navajo had "First Man" and "First Woman".

This wikipedia article list more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_man_or_woman

The basic theme usually involves original man seperating from some original divine or semi-divine state. Greek and Indian (and others) myth describes man and woman having been originally one being that was seperated. (Eve from Adam's rib.) There is often a "golden age" where man and gods interacted that vanishes in time. These ideas appear the world over in a multitude of local variations, including Genesis.

Minimalist

There is ONE...the Tel Dan stele and that's if they pieced it together correctly.