Biff the unclean

Converted you have gone from how the Bible contradicts it self to how Christians, you included, contradict the Bible
You have already said this was only a parable. A magic pile of dirt, a magic spare rib? We can know for sure that isn't a fact.
That isn't in the Bible. The Bible story says that God forbid man to have free will and that man, with the help of snake, stole free will from God.
With man on the level of a pet
Another Bible contradiction. The Jews worship a golden calf while Moses is off visiting Yahweh. The golden calf represents the God El. Yahweh punishes them for 40 years. BUT!!! Later in the Bible we are told that El is just another name of Yahweh.
In other words "thinking for themselves" or as you called it "free will."
The one thing these guys all had in common…they gave up their free wills and lowered themselves to be servants of the God.
In other words…those who valued their freedom, who exercised their free will.
Well of course God didn't get angry, God doesn't exist.
No I'm thinking that if God is the god you say He is then it would be impossible for Him to act in the manner that you say He acts. I'm saying that your God story is obviously a bunch of baloney.
Free Will is original sin.
Your religion breeds contempt for humanity, which you are now showing.
I live my life VERY well, and I'll thank you not to assume otherwise. The God of your OT is a monster.
You cannot admit It's creating the universe is a parable in one blurb and then claim it actually did it in the next. The only thing we have that indicates that it was God who created the universe is Genesis. But the author of Genesis was completely ignorant of what the universe is and makes one up out of his imagination. It has a lid on it, the firmament, for Pete's sake. This is proof positive that the creation story is a work of fiction.
No, it just says that God wanted a gardener. There's nothing about love.
More of that contempt that religion breeds for humankind.
That's easy. You seem to remake your God as a player on the field of reality and forget that you claim He is reality's author.
From God's perspective I would do it the same way he keeps you from xxxfting. The reason you cannot do some as terrible as xxxft is because it doesn't exist, God didn't create it. He didn't include it in the reality He made.
Obviously that is exactly what God wants. That is the very reason man had to steal the knowledge of good and evil. That is why God's good little robots all say "not my will, but Thy will be done." Robots follow their programming and obey all their commands
Here you go contradicting the Bible again.
If I were perfect and omnipresent and omniscient and omnipotent the only way that things could get out of control is by Me allowing them to.
If I allowed things to happen that I didn't like and then punished these lowly humans for doing what I allow them to do that would mean that I was mentally ill and one sick puppy.

There you go contradicting the Bible again. Jesus in the NT introduces the new idea of the Pit of Hell. He declares that most people…billions and billions of them…will burn for eternity. That's far worse than anything the OT had to offer. In the OT God just killed you and you were gone. In the NT Jesus has ETERNAL torment in store for you.
"Personal loving relationships" my arse
You mean with the dragon, and that monster with all the heads and the stars falling and Jesus with a sword coming out of his yap? And all the good little Christians who have surrendered their free will to Jesus floating up into the clouds? That's not a parable? Do you know how big a star is? Is God really the psychotic bastard the Book of Revelations makes Him out to be?
And this is the "only" place with wrath? It doesn't sound like you have actually read the NT. You miss quite a bit when you only skim.

Faith

I do believe there are some meaningful stories in the Bible detailing the relationship between God and Man, from Man's point of view. I don't believe it is the inerrant Word of God. It's certainly a window into understanding how our ancestors viewed their world, God and faith.

To say that God's communication with Man is limited to one old book is to deny that He continually speaks to us through people who bear witness to Him. People throughout history like Origen, St. Francis, Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. as well as contemporary writers like Karen Armstrong and Shelby Spong.



Man did not "Fall". There is no "original sin". That doesn't mean Jesus is superfluous. We may not need to be "saved", but we need to have a relationship with our Creator.

Many first century Jews believed Jesus was the One through whom they could experience and know God. For them, Jesus reflected God's holiness. Through Him, God's Word was spoken and His Will lived out.

Jesus broke social and religious boundaries and called for us to surrender our hate and prejudice and to love wholly. For His vision, He was persecuted and killed. But through His teachings we can still know God today.



Not to show contempt for humanity or to denigrate it as inherently evil, but to act as Jesus did. To reflect God, to encourage universal love and to decry hate and prejudice.

Faith

No. Not by a long shot.

Yahzi

With really careful exegesis, you can make a whole new book.

Yahzi

"Aquinas wrote that next to contemplating God, the greatest pleasure for the blessed ones in heaven would be watching the tortures of the eternally damned."

http://markmason.net/ch9ex1.htm

I dunno, but I'm gonna go with St. Augustine on what constitutes true Christian spirit here.

But then, you're not what I would call a Christian, Faith: you are simply too decent of a human being to earn that appellation from me.

Magus55

And by this post, we can safely conclude that the true atheist spirit is just as hateful.

Mageth

So you take one comment from one atheist intended as a compliment directed at one particular poster, a comment that appears to me to be intended more or less in jest (see the smiley), and extrapolate from that that the "true atheist spirit" (whatever that is) is "hateful"?

Sheesh. Talking about stretches, about way-broad over-generalizations.

Biff the unclean

Actually you learn about how a bunch of fanatics in the Middle Eastern desert viewed their world. Judging from the present crop over there it's a view not worth our time.
My ancestors believed in the Tuatha De Dannaan, Lugh, Nuada, the Dagda and all that lot. It's a completely different world view, one that loved this world.

Since none of these people ever met God they are "bearing witness" only of themselves. So give credit where credit is due. And it might help if you read about the life of St Francis, the guy was nutty as a fruit cake

So what? Most of the early Christians were Gnostic and other unorthodox flavors of Christianity. IIRC there were more than 30 gospels at the time and the Jesus that these folks believed in was nothing like the one you think of when you hear the name.

In other words he wanted exactly what the Romans wanted instead of what the Jews needed.
He cause a riot in the Temple on the high holy days by beating the crap out of honest merchants with a three strand whip. Or did you forget that part.
How do you know? You have no way to check if his teachings have the slightest thing to do with God, you just assume they do. And which teachings? Not those of most of the early Christians, the Romans banned those. You only have the ones the Emperor Constantine liked…and he wasn't even a Christian.

Very pretty but nothing to do with Jesus. Jesus invented the concept of Hell. It's not in the Jewish religion you know. Neither is the need for salvation. They could (can) spiritually save themselves without any outside help because they aren't fallen nor are they born in sin, as Jesus claims.

Magus55

I took the simely as being a friendly gesture at Faith for not fitting Yahzi's "way-broad over-generalization". I don't think how he regards Christians to be that much of a stretch.

Biff the unclean

Faith take a look at American History. The area of the country that once was the slave states is the same area that has fostered prejudice and hatred ever since. That area is the Bible Belt.
Now look at European history. There was an era when Christianity reigned supreme, when everyone was a Christian with Christian values. That era was called "The Dark Ages."

Faith these virtues that you love so much are not Christian, they are Humanist. They are secular not religious. In fact that school of thought came about in revolution against Christianity and it's values (or lack there of)