Sheshonq

Since the Tyre prophecy failed, it doesn't matter much.

arnoldo

The proof is Israel. If you don't agree with this what is your theory on how Israel came into existence in 1948?

Johnny Skeptic

Theory has nothing to do with it. The partition of Palestine is a bona fide example of a self-filled prophecy. If the Bible did not say anything about Jews, the partition of Palestine would never have happened. In addition, if the Axis powers had won the Second World War, the partition of Palestine would not have happened. The U.S. emerged from the Second World War as the greatest military and economic power in human history. No nation or group of nations would have been able to oppose the wishes of the U.S. that Palestine be partitioned. If Jewish history and Palestinian history had been reversed, and the Jews had been persecuted by Hitler and other parties, there is no way that the U.S. would have approved of Palestinians getting control of Jerusalem. There is not doubt whatsoever that the partition of Palestine is a bona fide case of a Bible based, self-filfilling prophecy.

Historically, humans have acquired land largely by military means. The partition of Palestine is only one more example of the acquisition of land by military means.

If Jews and Palestinians were contesting the ownership of land in a remote desert region in Australia that had no valuable natural resources, Jews, Muslims, and conservative Christians would be quite interested in those squabbles, but no one else in the world would.[/quote]

Sugarhitman said:

I replied:

What do you have to say about that?

Johnny Skeptic

Message to arnoldo: How could God's land promise to Abraham have been conditional upon good behavior if God knew that the behavior of Jews would not be acceptable to him until thousands of years later?

Johnny Skeptic

Message to arnoldo: You claimed that the Bible indicates that Jews will not be kicked out of Palestine again. When Scriptures are you referring to?

Sheshonq

1. The proof is not Israel - if you want to make a claim that this is a fulfilled prophecy, I listed the criteria already:

1. You need to demonstrate that this happened by divine intervention, not by the normal workings of human governments and militaries.

2. You need to show that the current state of Israel conforms to the most reasonable interpretation of any of these prophecies.

3.0 You need to show that the Orthodox Jewish interpretation I gave earlier is wrong.

You haven't even scratched the surface of the work that lies in front of you.

I already know how it came into existence - politics and military power.

Johnny Skeptic

No it isn't. You can't restore what you never had. Genesis 17:8 says that God would give Abraham and his descendants ALL of the land of Canaan as as EVERLASTING covenant. The partition of Palestine failed on both counts. You yourself said that Jews have never occupied all of the land of Canaan. Aside from the fact that you did not offer any credible historical evidence that backs up your convenient guess, an everlasting convenant cannot begin until the Jews occupy all of Palestine.

arnoldo

You obviously have no understanding of the Abrahamic covenant, the Mosaic covenant, or the Davidic convenant, or the bible for that matter. The Jews who are living in the land of Israel this very moment are descendants of Abraham, this is a historical fact. Since we are living in the "Age of the Gentiles" Israel has not yet fulfilled it's prophecy ,ie, something that will happen in the future.

arnoldo

I already explained to you that the term EVERLASTING is a mistranslation, look up the Hebrew word for yourself. Regardless God is a God of the living and not the dead so Abraham and all of the Jews who have died will be resurected and live in the land of Israel.

arnoldo

You neglect to take into account that all throughout the Old Testament God uses politics and military power for his own purposes.