Originally Posted by sugarhitman

And yet 94% of Turkish DNA is related to Europeans and people of the Near east...they are a Indo-European people just like Europeans.

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Roman peoples were latin, Celtic, Greeks, Germanic. These people dominate the world today....they are the people and inheritors of the Roman empire....everyone knows this already or should.

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Daniels prediction of the 4th kingdom kills your arguement because the division of Rome was completed in 476 A.D. and the fact that another people have yet to conquer the Europeans is another fact that puts the final nail into the coffin of this "written afterwards" nonsense. You will never disprove Daniel because the present fulfillment of his predictions will not allow you. Bye :wave:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman (my bold)

Roman peoples were latin, Celtic, Greeks, Germanic. These people dominate the world today....they are the people and inheritors of the Roman empire....everyone knows this already or should.

Originally Posted by sugarhitman (my bold again)

Lets start with Daniel ch. 2. Nebucahdnezzar has a dream of a statue that was made of different metals in this order.

1. Head of gold
2. Chest and arms of silver
3. Stomach and thighs of brass
4. Legs of iron
5. Toes mixed with iron and clay

Daniel says these metals in chronological order represents 4 kingdoms that would rise upon the earth, he tells Nebby that it starts with his kingdom.

1. Babylon (Daniel tells Nebby that Babylon is the head of gold)
2. Medo-Persia ( Many critics says that there was never a Medo-Persia, but in fact in relevacy to Daniel's prophecy he does not seperate the medes from the persians. In ch 5 on the last day of the Babylonian kingdom a new kingdom arises. "Thy kingdom is DIVIDED and given to the MEDES AND PERSIANS" Medo-Persia is well represented as the chest and TWO ARMS of silver of the image.)
3. Greece (In ch. 8 Daniel foresees a battle between Medo-Persia and the Greeks, with the Greeks conquering Medo-Persia. Greece becomes the third kingdom represented by the stomach and thighs of brass).
4. Rome (Daniel does not out right say it but the Angel Gabriel most certainly gives a hint to who is this fourth kingdom. "And after 62 weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the PEOPLE of the Prince who is to come SHALL DESTROY THE CITY (JERUSELEM) AND THE SANCTUARY....Gabriel tells Daniel the Temple and the city was to under go another destruction by a certain people. The Romans were the only people to have did these things AFTER the cutting off of the Messiah after the restoration of Israel. Jesus lived and died during the Roman Empire)
5. Divided Rome (Daniel says this fourth kingdom would be divided and that they would again establish a brittle unity. Also note that the 4th kingdom is not to be conquered by another people! Until this day these European powers still remains in power, perhaps the longest rule of any people since the beginning of civilization! Also note that critics are famed by their attacks on the book of Daniel due to the accuracy of this remarkable prophet by saying these events were written in 200 B.C. or before the predictions. If that is true than how do you explain the events of the 4th kingdom like its division which didnt take place until 300 something A.D. when Rome split into west and east, and then in 476 A.D. when the west fell into separate powers, exactly what Daniel said would happen. And why is it also that there have been no kingdom to arise after the Roman-European powers which has remained true since Rome rosed! Maybe Daniel was written after 476!

Originally Posted by Agenda07

Spare us the condescension: your definition of 'Roman' is incoherent, and seems to be based on either genetics, historical boundaries or contemporary location depending on which is convenient to you. Now you're declaring Greeks to be part of the 'Roman' category, when your original argument was based on them being distinct from Rome

Originally Posted by ChairmanMeow

Turkey is a eurasian country with a culture consisting primarily of eastern influences. Not a european country. Their westernization only recently began with the Ottoman Empire.




Non sequitur. Guyane is an EU member, and yet it's in South America! Therefore we can conclude that citizens of Guyane are Europeans!



Common fundy response and another goalpost-shift.



A book with as many innaccuracies and plain wrong information such as Daniel is generally not considered an authoritative source on anything, let alone predicting the future. Applying the Law of Large Numbers with respect to prophecy is only a display of wilful ignorance.



Darius the Mede is not known from any other historical sources at the time. Neither the Cyrus_Cylinder nor the Babylonian_Chronicle makes any mention of "Darius the Mede."

From here:
(1) In 550 B. C., Cyrus conquered the kingdom of the Medes and made it a province or satrapy of the Persian empire.

(2) In 539 B. C., Babylon fell to Cyrus, so by this time Media no longer existed.

(3) Cyrus ruled in Babylon from 539-538 B. C. and then moved his residence to Ecbatana, a city in territory that Cyrus had taken in his conquest of Media.

(4) The writer of Daniel clearly indicated that a "Darius the Mede" reigned in Babylon for at least one year between the reigns of Belshazzar and Cyrus the Persian, but by the time Daniel's mysterious "Darius the Mede" had finished his reign in Babylon and Cyrus had begun his, Cyrus (according to contemporary Persian records) had left Babylon and moved his official residence to Ecbatana.

In other words, Cyrus was the historical ruler of Babylon at the supposed time of Darius' rule.

There are no "inheritors" of the Roman Empire. With the decline of western Rome, Europe fell into a philosophical and technological dark age -- it didn't inherit the technologies and philosophies of Rome. Rome, as an empire, is gone.

Europe may be composed of people who are descended from romans, but this does not mean that Europe is the "inheritor" of Rome. Europe had to rediscover and reinvent most of the technologies and schools of thought lost in the decline; they didn't get them handed down as "inheritences." European culture is very unique and includes many influences from immigrants. Aside from genetic links, there are very few similarities between modern Europe and Rome.

To say that Europe is the "inheritor" of Rome is wishful thinking -- a logical fallacy based on an appeal to emotion.

Originally Posted by Lógos Sokratikós

The language of that prophecy is too ambiguous to be declared fulfilled. It can mean anything. Basically, it relies on the fact that "empires will come and go, beaten by the next", but that's what always happened! What if instead of the Roman Empire, it would have been the Gauls or the Mongols? It would have fit that "prophecy" like a glove, just like the Romans. No matter if the Romans had never existed it would still become fulfilled! If it fits any possible outcome, it predicts nothing.

Originally Posted by ChairmanMeow

I think you hit the nail on the head there. That's pretty much his entire strategy.

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

And yet 94% of Turkish DNA is related to Europeans and people of the Near east...they are a Indo-European people just like Europeans. And if they are not European then why are they a canidate country in a European Organization? (duhhhh)

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Trying to defeat Daniel with questionable history doesnt work....because his predictions came much later then the "second century B.C."

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

And do you know for a certainty that Darius the Mede didn't exist? No. It takes faith to believe ancient history as well....and they are not always accurate. :wave:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

You do realize that Darius reign was in no way limited to Babylon. When Daniel said Darius took the kingdom he was referring to Babylon and all the territory of the Medo-Persians

"Then king Darius wrote to all people nations and languages that dwell in ALL THE EARTH..."..that all should honor the God of Daniel.

So you see his rule was not limited to Babylon. The point? Just because Cyrus did not remain in Babylon does not mean that he didnt rule over it. And if Darius remained in Babylon that does not mean he did not rule over the Medes and Persians.

"Europe may be composed of the people who descended from the Romans"

Originally Posted by ChairmanMeow

You completely misunderstood the point. I'll just copy and paste it, since you seem unable to read.


Let me break this down for you; this means that nobody named Darius could have been ruling Babylon at this time, because there was someone named Cyrus already doing so.




I've proven, through mountains of text, that Darius the Mede is generally accepted to be a fictional or misplaced/misnamed person.



Why thank you for completely ignoring the rest of the paragraph. Again, let me copy and paste it for you:


I think you need to read this, this, and this.