Thugpreacha

It has been argued quite often that the "God" of the OT is a cruel one. In particular, many argue that by commanding Israel to slaughter other nations, the action was akin to evil. aken in a modern context, however, and even leaving "God" out of the equation, if the U.S. were suddenly unable to stop a growing wave of terrorism, and if the terrorism hurt U.S. citizens en masse, and if the source of the terrorists was pinpointed to a country or group of countries who did not let anyone pursue the terrorists in those borders, I would say that even if this country wiped those nations out, it would be justifiable in the interests of self preservation. That is all that ancient Israel was doing. The other cultures had far worse morals than did Israel, and the very existance of Israel was at stake.

Boomeister

I think people are objecting to more than ancient Israel going to war, or at least I am.
Many of the laws or commandments (not talking about the Ten Commandments, but the other commandments) required stoning fellow Israelites for not following. There's one thing to have laws; there's another thing to have laws and explain why they are necessary; and there's still another thing to have laws and say you will die if you don't follow them. I'm not talking about capital punishment for murder. There's capital punishment for all sorts of behaviors that would have even the most pious Christian today killed.


Boomeister

sh0k0nes

1. So, might is right?
2. "God" created them in the first place.
3. Who said the other cultures had worse morals?

The god portrayed in the OT was an evil, warmongering b'stard.
Always up for a fight and in need of a life.
Instead of hardening hearts he should have been softening them.
Instead of invading and wiping out, he could have moved them to the moon.
He's god afterall.

Kev

Infidelettante

Read Joshua and then come back and tell us what crimes were committed against the Israelites by the people they slaughtered. They weren’t terrorists, they were just people unlucky enough to live where your God wanted his chosen race to settle. In city after city Joshua killed until there “was none left to breath.� You think this is justified? Were there no innocent Canaanites? No peaceful Amorites?

Why does it always surprise me when adherents of such a bloodthirsty religion show so little regard for bloodletting? For God so loved the world except for the ones who live in the wrong places or think the wrong things. Such a defense does not serve your God well. It only makes him petty and small. And it makes his defenders sound desperate.

JT

Sarpedon

What evidence do you have that the other ancient cultures had worse morals than the israelis? According to the OT, the israelis found it ok to force women who were raped to marry the rapists, Kill children for being insolent to their parents, kill women if they weren't virgins when they were married, beat children for any and no infraction, kill or enslave anyone who wasn't an israelite, etc etc. Tell me, what did these other cultures do that was worse than this? From what I know about the egyptians, the hittites and the babylonians, they had far superior morals and laws than these.

lpetrich

Somehow, Thugpreacha's defense of OT genocidal massacres reminds me of someone who was so outraged by the 9/11 kamikaze hijackings that he would not feel happy until every single Arab and Muslim was killed.

Yes, one must use the word "genocide" here. Entire populations are to be killed (Deut. 7, 20, etc.). No new homes were to be found for them. They were not even to be forcibly deported. They were to be killed -- not just men of military age, but also old men, women, children, and babies. Which might be called "The Final Solution of the Canaanite Question".

With the only reason given (Deut. 20:18) being that they are a bad influence since they worship pagan deities.

Weltall

I find that sort of attitude reprehensible.
You can't prove any of that. Even if you could it doesn't excuse genocide.

NOGO

This particular massacre is interesting because the reason for it is clearly stated. It sounds like a case of pure revenge which is bad enough.

I will skip over the fact that the punishment is disproportionate as compared to the act itself which is described in exodus starting at 17:8

The problem is that there is 450 years separating these two events.
So the Amalekites were massacred for something that happened 450 years before.

Just imagine being attacked today for something that happened around 1550 AD.

NOGO

What if that country happens to be Russia?

Would you go to war and risk wiping out all of humanity or would you negotiate a suitable arrangement?

Al Kafirun

I don't think I understand Thug's question, so I'll abstain from referring to it. But for the record, I love the evil OT God. Makes me wish I were Jewish. As an atheist, I recognize nature as cruel, decidely cruel. Hardly a YHWH commanded presence, but far cry from Marcion's effeminate deity.