Steven Carr

For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died.” 1 Thessalonians 4:14.

Why did Paul not write that the knew that Jesus died and rose again?

Why is the alleged fact of the resurrection of Jesus a belief rather than an accepted fact among early Christians?

JohnG

I know what I would say, but - it is strange that the Christian text would phrase it in that manner. Is there a translation issue going on there?

Do they mean "trust" or something?

Tigers!

If believe is used as a synonym for know then the problem (such as it is) disappears.

Steven Carr

But believe is not a synonym for know. Everybody knows JFK was shot, but some people believe there was a second gunman.

Kosh

What does the word in the greek version mean?

A Stable Flux

Paul doesn't acknowledge anything Jesus ever said or did in the canonical gospels. He seems to be just about believing Jesus died and rose again. Whoever this Jesus character was. It seems pretty clear to me that Paul didn't think there was a real, historical resurrection but only one of personal spirituality. He probably doesn't think Jesus ever existed. It only took some stupid medieval churches of Europe and the pathetically misguided literalist fundamentalists of our time to believer there was a real resurrection.

Steven Carr

Basically it means trust or faith in something. It is not usually used about basic facts, such as there being a sun or a moon.

For Paul, the resurrection was not a well-known fact for Christians, in the way that the assassination of JFK is a basic fact for people today.

Tigers!

If someone were to ask me if Stephen Carr started this thread and I replied "I believe so" have I said anything grammatically or factually incorrect?
Granted it might be considered a little cumbersome.

stuart shepherd

Look at it this way........
If you were Paul, and somebody told you a story about a wacko woman named Mary Magdalene, who had seven devils, and supposedly she said Jesus rose from the dead, .....would you KNOW or might you BELIEVE? Or might you say you believe to turn a profit passing the basket among superstitious gentiles who are looking for the secret of eternal life?

Stuart Shepherd
BTW....Really great observation. Proof positve that Paul KNEW nothing and was just capitalizing on an interesting story.

xaxxat

What would the higher standard be? To say you believe or you know?