Steven Avery

Sure, there is a lot of information from the Talmud, Josephus and other sources. I think Josephus records Temple door events similar to the Talmud, although I don't have those quotes handy.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messia...c/message/7574
[Messianic_Apologetic] Destruction of the Temple - prophesied by Jesus, also by Yohanan Ben Zakkai - David Flusser book

The Talmud passage --
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qdoors.html
Yoma 39b reads:
"Our masters taught: During the forty years preceding the destruction of the Temple, the lot "For the Lord" did not come up in the high priest's right hand, nor did the crimson strand turn white, nor did the westernmost lamp burn continually. And the doors of the Temple Hall would open by themselves, until Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai reprimanded them, saying "Temple Hall, Temple Hall, why do you yourself keep sounding the alarm? I already know about you, that you are to be destroyed, for long agao Zechariah, a descendant of Iddo, prophesied to you, 'Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars'" (Zech 11.1).

http://tinyurl.com/9ldfm
To Bury Caiaphas, Not to Praise Him - David Flusser
Although the statement that if many believe in Jesus "the Romans will come and destroy both our holy place and our nation" may be late, it is well known that in Caiaphas' time prophecies of doom about the future destruction of the temple already existed15; one of them was uttered by Jesus himself.

15. Compare Josephus, War 6:288–315; and Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai's prediction of the temple's destruction in Babylonian Talmud, Yoma 39b. According to the Talmud, ben Zakkai gave this prophecy forty years before the destruction of the temple.

http://www.ramsheadpress.com/messiah/ch06.html
Supernatural Events in the The Temple Regarding Atonement Cease After Jesus !

Footnote for “The Mystery of the Temple Doors,� from a lecture by Jonathan Cahn. This has been played on Paltalk occasionally on voice chat.
Might be able to get it from -- http://www.hopeoftheworld.com/Broadcasts_2NJBs.asp

http://www.yeshuatyisrael.com/doors.htm
The Temple Doors and the Scapegate

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/30ad.htm
The Mysterious Events of the Year 30 A.D. !

Shalom,
Praxeas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/

Ben C Smith

Yes, there is. Well, actually there are (at least) three.

Justin Martyr, Apology 1.34.2:

Κωμη δε τις εστιν εν τη χωÏ?α Ιουδαιων απεχουσα σταδιους Ï„Ï?ιακοντα πεντε ΙεÏ?οσολυμων, εν η εγεννηθη Ιησους ΧÏ?ιστος, ως και μαθειν δυνασθε εκ των απογÏ?αφων των γενομενων επι ΚυÏ?ηνιου, του υμετεÏ?ου εν Ιουδαια Ï€Ï?ωτου γενομενου επιτÏ?οπου.

And there is a certain village in the country of the Jews, at a distance of thirty-five stades from Jerusalem, in which was born Jesus Christ, as you can learn from the census-lists made in the time of Cyrenius, who was your first governor in Judea.

Justin Martyr, Apology 1.35.8-9:

Και μετα το σταυÏ?ωσαι αυτον εβαλον κληÏ?ον επι τον ιματισμον αυτου, και εμεÏ?ισαντο εαυτοις οι σταυÏ?ωσαντες αυτον. και ταυτα οτι γεγονε δυνασθε μαθειν εκ των επι Ϊοντιου Ϊιλατου γενομενων ακτων.

And after he was crucified they cast lots for his clothing, and those who crucified him divided them. And that these things came to pass you can learn from the Acts made in the time of Pontius Pilate.

Justin Martyr, Apology 1.48.1-3:

Οτι δε και θεÏ?απευσειν πασας νοσους και νεκÏ?ους ανεγεÏ?ειν ο ημετεÏ?ος ΧÏ?ιστος Ï€Ï?οεφητευθη, ακουσατε των λελεγμενων· εστι δε ταυτα· Τη παÏ?ουσια αυτου αλειται χωλος ως ελαφος, και Ï„Ï?ανη εσται γλωσσα μογιλαλων· τυφλοι αναβλεψουσι και λεπÏ?οι καθαÏ?ισθησονται και νεκÏ?οι αναστησονται και πεÏ?ιπατησουσιν. οτι δε ταυτα εποιησεν εκ των επι Ϊοντιου Ϊιλατου γενομενων ακτων μαθειν δυνασθε.

But, that it was also prophesied that our Christ would heal all diseases and raise dead people, listen to the things that have been said. These things are: At his advent a lame man shall leap like a deer, and the tongue of the stammerer shall be clear; blind men shall see and lepers shall be cleansed and dead men shall resurrect and walk around. And that he did these things you can learn from the Acts made in the time of Pontius Pilate.

(The scriptural reference to what has been said is originally to Isaiah 35.5-6, but mention of lepers being cleansed and the dead rising has infiltrated from Matthew 11.5 = Luke 7.22.)

Ben.

Ben C Smith

Hmmm. The capital letters in the (Unicode) Greek for Pontius Pilate each came out as a capital I with an umlaut or diaresis. Not sure why....

offa

each spring with daylight savings time we have an extra hour of daylight. This is so the golfers can have an extra hour of light in the evening.
The six extra hous of darkness each spring was an intercalation that after four years it was a leap year (1/4 of a day a year). Pope Gregory corrected the problem that was created by eliminating ten days one October and not having a leap-year at the end of a century (the '00' years are not leap-years).

offa

Wallener

Justin Martyr lived in Samaria. According to the Samaritan tradition the messiah will be a carpenter ("nazar" in Aramaic, IIUC) named Joshua born of the house of Joseph. Josphesus records a Samaritan aspirant to messiahship being killed in a clash with Pilate's soldiers at Mount Gerizim in 35 CE. There is some external evidence of this as Samaria lodged a formal complaint and managed to (more or less) get Pilate fired over the incident.

How sure are we that Biblical Jesus was in fact Jewish and not Samaritan?

offa

Jesus was a Samaritan but Samaritans were not from Samaria, they were from Judea. Jesus' Galilee was not a Samaria location, it was located in Judea.

A tip off to defining Samaritans is that their mothers are perpetual Virgins. Elisabeth, Saint Mary's cousin, was a Virgin and she went into hiding after five month's in order to preserve her Virginity.

St. Joseph was not a Samaritan priest (Angel). He was of the kingly line and was referred to as the Holy Spirit. Their was no sexual adultery involved. Jesus became an adulterer in A.D. 17 when he chose a non-Samaritan priest to be his Father (priest). Adultery is changing your religion.

Jesus never achieved the ranking of Angel. Simon Magus, a.k.a. Lazarus, was an Angel and was defrocked (put to death, excommunicated). Being defrocked he became "a naked adolescent" and was the person running around with no clothes on at the Crucifixion. Jonathan Annas became the Samaritan chief priest (Father, Angel) and he was the one to whom Jesus was speaking to about being forsaken.

offa

Toto

source on Samaritans and Pilate

Seeker2000

Thanks, it's interesting, but far from being very spectacular. No earthquake is mentioned (although that wouldn't even be something unnatural), neither some darkness. Some strange events, but not necessarily supernatural. Also, those are reported either for a time span (during the 40 years before the destruction of the temple) or for the year 30 AD or 31 AD (40 years before the destruction), which would be the wrong year, because the references to a solar eclipse are to the year 32 AD.

Then there are some prophecies of the destruction of the temple, which is not really surprising, as the Jews back then regarded the temple as temporary. They expected that a messiah would come who would free them from the Romans and who would destroy the old temple in order to build a new, even better one.

What kind of sources do you have for that?

offa

An "earthquake" is the presence of an Angel. Use your search engines and go through Scripture looking for "Earthquake" and replace it with "chief priest" and you wil get a different view point.

offa

Steven Avery

Thanks Ben for the Justin Martyr references.
And "Moses reincarnate.." is mentioned on the web page.

However, I really don't see where this fellow was a Messiah aspirant, or claimed to be Moses reincarnate. Looks like loose analysis, unless I missed something.

Shalom,
Praxeas
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/