TedM

I'm curious what folks here think are the top 3 arguments for invention with regard to a historical Jesus, other than arguments from silence, in each of the following areas:

1. The Jesus of Christianity was a teacher with disciples roughly 26-30AD
2. The Jesus of Christianity performed miracles roughly 26-30AD
3. The Jesus of Christianity was crucified roughly 26-30AD

One might list the name "Jesus" as a positive evidence of invention regarding the crucifixion of the Jesus of Christianity, since it means "Savior", or one might use the inability to get a fig from the fig tree as evidence that his ability to perform miracles was an invention.

Again, I don't want arguments from silence like "Paul never mentions Jesus' miracles", or "we have no contemporary records of such and such". I want to know what evidence that exists (writings, archeology) most strongly dispute the above historical claims IYO.

thanks,

ted

Hallandale

Dear Ted,
1Corinthians 15:6..After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
Paul says that after his resurrection, Jesus was seen by 500 brethren at once.
But when the brethren received the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, they were all in the upper room and there were only about 120. Acts chapter 1

What happened to the other 380 brethren?
This mistake smells of fabrication.
Nick Hallandale
enterprisestrategy@earthlink.net

Toto

There might have been such a teacher.

The top argument against this is that miracles are impossible. People don't walk on water or get resurrected from the dead.

If Jesus were such a threat that he would have been crucified, the authorities would have also crucified his followers and relatives. The Romans didn't mess around.

TedM

Thanks. The absence of the 500 from the gospels and from Acts is surprising to me too. However, I don't see this as evidence against any of the 3 items I mentioned.

ted

TedM

Ok. Maybe I should have said "Jesus had a reputation as a miracle worker". In such a case are there clues that such a reputation was invented?

I think the invention your are implying is a crucifixion that doesn't include followers and relatives, but which by implication would (due to the perception of a threat by the Romans). Maybe that is why he isn't presented as a great threat to the Romans, but rather to the Jewish leaders primarily.

Toto

Like being a teacher, having a reputation as a miracle worker is unremarkable - but it doesn't define Jesus Christ.

But the Jewish leaders would not likely have used crucifixion.

TedM

Thanks Toto. In the spirit of 'collecting' viewpoints, I'll try to refrain from engaging in arguments.

ted

Diogenes the Cynic

I don't think that 1 and 3 can be conclusively disproven but 2 is quite easily dispensed with simply by virtue of the fact that miracles are impossible.

MerryAtheist

"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof"

With regard to claims of miracles, the only "proofs" are from anonymous writers 30 to 60 years after the events; writers with a clear and obvious motive to exaggerate and invent. That hardly qualifies as extraordinary proof for such extraordinary claims.

GakuseiDon

Jesus the miracle worker according to "Family Guy":
http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/856.html