Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Thomas II · 01-23-2006, 09:14 AM

What?...What do I mean by ALL THAT IS?...

...The I AM that I AM...

And that is...what?

THAT IS ALL...

:grin:

Chili · 01-23-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

Why "a confrontation"? You mean between the pull between Individual and Universal tendencies?

To give you a clear view you must understand that there are two confrontations. The first confrontation brings about rebirth at the crisis moment that happens at midnight, midwinter, midlife = 666 -- because 'the sun stopped' as if on the other side of life, which in turn is a metaphor for the darkest point in our life. The pull between earth and heaven (same thing) is normal during the Ordinary Period of the Catholic Calender year but this "pull" intensifies for 40 days of Advent (the Flood in OT language) prior to Christ-mass, which is symbolic for this first crisis moment when Christ is born into the mind of the believer (= rebirth). Now notice that 'midlife' is not every year for everybody but sooner or later every believer will arrive at that point in life and so the Church's calender year repeats itself every year. Doing that, is really all that the Church is interested in: going around every day, every weak, every year, and in the life of everybody to make this 666 known (kind of like a real life boring bingo event).

Now notice that this first confrontation is between you and your own dogmatism wherein religion is put to the test through doubt. This would be the purpose of religion but the believer does not know this (or they would have put hatching boxes in the churches). By this I mean to say that the Church knows and understands that salvation is by God (the inner man) and that not they, nor any evangelist, is allowed to bring this about at a premature state of mind (here we get into "from his mother's womb untimely ripped" which would lead to a tragedy instead of a comedy).

The above is about what happened to Joseph except that he was a Jew instead of a Catholic. After rebirth he became known as Jesus, and there now was 'two of them': Joseph the Jew and Joseph the Christ (Messiah) who in this dual nature was angry with religion for not having told him the truth (beginning with the temple ruckus and followed by many "woe you pharisees)." This was pretty much like Luther who was also angry with religion which only means that salvation brought relief, if you can follow that, which did not come sooner to bring relief because the real 666 is the only winning ticket in life.

In the Gospels Joseph-the-Jew becomes the actual cross that is carried by Jesus-the-Messiah right to the bitter end when the two must part. He's a stream entrant here now, a Sotapanna, Galilean or Purgatorian who must convert a potential tragedy into a comedy, on his own, for victory and against religion that is now needed to condemn him as heretic and not wanted as part of the flock. It happened to all the greats including Spinoza, Einstein, Newton and many others.

This period takes about 40 months and is preceded by 40 days of Lent to culminate at Easter when in the second crisis moment the sun stopped for the second time but this time on the sunny side of life = the seventh day when evening does not follow the day and on into the 40 years of heaven on earth (life of victory) = the nation Israel or Rome's Church Triumphant.

The confrontation is a real life event in the consolation of philosophy. The first confrontation pitted the new creation against religion and the second finds harmony with religion and this is the one that Luther missed. Hence he tried to reform the world around himself as so many others are so eager to do. The crucifxion is about death and Easter is about illumination. In this sense is it wrong to dwell on death (Nibbana) instead of Resurrection (Nirvana).

Quote:

There are cultures who have rituals for this sort of transformation from the "Jesus" to the "Christ"...The one depicted in the movie "A man called Horse" is one of those rituals...But that is not the only one...Probably one of the problems with our culture is that it does not have these kinds of transformational rituals...

The problem with rituals is that the real life event must come to us as a thief in the night at a time that is not suspected because "we cannot have one eye asquint towards this event," as Golding put it.

Quote:

Most, if not all the teachings available from "Jesus", are directed towards this
re-focusing of the ego (re-birth) from the INDIVIDUAL ("Jesus") to the UNIVERSAL ("Christ").

The Gospels take place in Purgatory when religion is left behind. That is why it is a contradiction to be called Christian and go to church. It is impossible and absurd to even think so.

Quote:

But these teachings do not originate with Jesus...The whole principle from the different forms of YOGA relates to that consciousness of UNION gained by releasing the individual for the universal consciousness...

Yoga is a different way towards enlightenment. It is much like Abraham or Isaac but not Jacob. Jesus is Jacob.

Quote:

Hindus still give deities a name...Buddhists aim at transcending even that.

But an pool of omniscience is required before transcendence can take place as without this there is no 'mansion' in heaven to call home (or it would be much like a dog transcending the dogginess of dogs to become a superdog).

Quote:

You say "Crucifixion is our only way to Heaven"...
By that I must understand you mean that the releasing of the individual self for the universal self is the only way to find everlasting PEACE...Is it not?

Yes, it is a metaphor, but if we hold that our faculty of reason is placed subservient to intuition the ego identity must die because the nerve endings are re-routed to the subconscious awareness that makes the transformation of the body possible = no sickness, pain etc. Hence also the infinite peace without end.

Quote:

And by PEACE I mean to find the REALIZATION of our SELF...

.

No problem but it is more than just a theory, as I see it.

Thomas II · 01-23-2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

To give you a clear view you must understand that there are two confrontations. The first confrontation brings about rebirth at the crisis moment that happens at midnight, midwinter, midlife = 666 -- because 'the sun stopped' as if on the other side of life, which in turn is a metaphor for the darkest point in our life. The pull between earth and heaven (same thing) is normal during the Ordinary Period of the Catholic Calender year but this "pull" intensifies for 40 days of Advent (the Flood in OT language) prior to Christ-mass, which is symbolic for this first crisis moment when Christ is born into the mind of the believer (= rebirth). Now notice that 'midlife' is not every year for everybody but sooner or later every believer will arrive at that point in life and so the Church's calender year repeats itself every year. Doing that, is really all that the Church is interested in: going around every day, every weak, every year, and in the life of everybody to make this 666 known (kind of like a real life boring bingo event).

Now notice that this first confrontation is between you and your own dogmatism wherein religion is put to the test through doubt. This would be the purpose of religion but the believer does not know this (or they would have put hatching boxes in the churches). By this I mean to say that the Church knows and understands that salvation is by God (the inner man) and that not they, nor any evangelist, is allowed to bring this about at a premature state of mind (here we get into "from his mother's womb untimely ripped" which would lead to a tragedy instead of a comedy).

The above is about what happened to Joseph except that he was a Jew instead of a Catholic. After rebirth he became known as Jesus, and there now was 'two of them': Joseph the Jew and Joseph the Christ (Messiah) who in this dual nature was angry with religion for not having told him the truth (beginning with the temple ruckus and followed by many "woe you pharisees)." This was pretty much like Luther who was also angry with religion which only means that salvation brought relief, if you can follow that, which did not come sooner to bring relief because the real 666 is the only winning ticket in life.

In the Gospels Joseph-the-Jew becomes the actual cross that is carried by Jesus-the-Messiah right to the bitter end when the two must part. He's a stream entrant here now, a Sotapanna, Galilean or Purgatorian who must convert a potential tragedy into a comedy, on his own, for victory and against religion that is now needed to condemn him as heretic and not wanted as part of the flock. It happened to all the greats including Spinoza, Einstein, Newton and many others.

This period takes about 40 months and is preceded by 40 days of Lent to culminate at Easter when in the second crisis moment the sun stopped for the second time but this time on the sunny side of life = the seventh day when evening does not follow the day and on into the 40 years of heaven on earth (life of victory) = the nation Israel or Rome's Church Triumphant.

The confrontation is a real life event in the consolation of philosophy. The first confrontation pitted the new creation against religion and the second finds harmony with religion and this is the one that Luther missed. Hence he tried to reform the world around himself as so many others are so eager to do. The crucifxion is about death and Easter is about illumination. In this sense is it wrong to dwell on death (Nibbana) instead of Resurrection (Nirvana).

The problem with rituals is that the real life event must come to us as a thief in the night at a time that is not suspected because "we cannot have one eye asquint towards this event," as Golding put it.

The Gospels take place in Purgatory when religion is left behind. That is why it is a contradiction to be called Christian and go to church. It is impossible and absurd to even think so.

Yoga is a different way towards enlightenment. It is much like Abraham or Isaac but not Jacob. Jesus is Jacob.

But an pool of omniscience is required before transcendence can take place as without this there is no 'mansion' in heaven to call home (or it would be much like a dog transcending the dogginess of dogs to become a superdog).

Yes, it is a metaphor, but if we hold that our faculty of reason is placed subservient to intuition the ego identity must die because the nerve endings are re-routed to the subconscious awareness that makes the transformation of the body possible = no sickness, pain etc. Hence also the infinite peace without end.

No problem but it is more than just a theory, as I see it.

Chili,
I don't believe in the Catholic Church nor it's dogma...Personally, I don't think they represent "Christ" AT ALL...They are another entity altogether...
They tend to see doubt as a matter of rebellious disagreement...but it's not about that with me...I see past their intellectual fabrications which I got to know well when I attended catholic school...
They seem to be lacking HEART, having spent too much time within their intellect...twisting and turning things around just so that THEY could fit better, and manipulating people so that they would follow Church and not Jesus...
The day I see them coming down from their ego trip,their pomp and circumstance, their artwork,jewels and materialism in general, and actually share that crucifixion we are talking about, that day I might take a second look at them. For now it's bussines as usual at Vatican City...

How much are you taken by Rome?

Tell me more about how yoga is like Abraham and Isaac, but Jesus is like Jacob...(?)

Chili · 01-23-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

Chili,
I don't believe in the Catholic Church nor it's dogma...Personally, I don't think they represent "Christ" AT ALL...They are another entity altogether...
They tend to see doubt as a matter of rebellious disagreement...but it's not about that with me...I see past their intellectual fabrications which I got to know well when I attended catholic school...

But you don't have to believe anything they say or do. I am just giving you their way heaven along the same way as Joseph was led to Bethlehem , Nazareth and on to Israel with Bethlehem being just another step along the way.

My problem actually is that no other religion has a path that can be used to show you this . . . which would follow if heaven is for Catholics and Jews only.

You are right, Catholics are not Christians and do not want to be Christian or they would have replaced the confessionals with hatching boxes. Remember here though, that when Catholics do become Christian they are no longer Catholic in the same way that Jesus was no longer a Jew as stream entrant in the Gospels.

Quote:

They seem to be lacking HEART, having spent too much time within their intellect...twisting and turning things around just so that THEY could fit better, and manipulating people so that they would follow Church and not Jesus...

You mean HEART with a thirst for blood? Do you realize how great an appetite for killing is required to produce and maintain 6000 nuclear bombs by those Jesus worshipers you are so fond of?

Quote:

The day I see them coming down from their ego trip,their pomp and circumstance, their artwork,jewels and materialism in general, and actually share that crucifixion we are talking about, that day I might take a second look at them. For now it's bussines as usual at Vatican City...

You don't really think that they are waiting for you, do you?

And so is it business as usual in America.

Quote:

How much are you taken by Rome?

Never been there but I like the philosophy behind their religion.

Quote:

Tell me more about how yoga is like Abraham and Isaac, but Jesus is like Jacob...(?)

Remember "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?" Three distinct ways to 'reach' God. I read about this a long time ago but forgot what it was all about and really do not care to go into that. I was more interested in Jacob with his hip out of joint (nice metaphor) and from there went into the Gospels that line up better with our tradition.

Thomas II · 01-24-2006, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

My problem actually is that no other religion has a path that can be used to show you this . . . which would follow if heaven is for Catholics and Jews only.

But why would you need a religion specially the Catholic one? Do you realize that the Catholic Church had to INVENT their whole religion? Not even Jesus invented the religion using him as its God! They fabricated the WHOLE thing for the sake of Rome, what Rome represents, not for the sake of Jesus,and certainly not for the sake of Christ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

You are right, Catholics are not Christians and do not want to be Christian or they would have replaced the confessionals with hatching boxes. Remember here though, that when Catholics do become Christian they are no longer Catholic in the same way that Jesus was no longer a Jew as stream entrant in the Gospels.

Catholics DO think they are Christians and they DO want to be Christians.
Jesus was no longer a Jew? Where did you get that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

You mean HEART with a thirst for blood? Do you realize how great an appetite for killing is required to produce and maintain 6000 nuclear bombs by those Jesus worshipers you are so fond of?

"6000 nuclear bombs"? "Jesus worshipers I'm so fond of"?
Chili,have you lost it completely? Snap out of it,man! What on earth are you talking about?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

You don't really think that they are waiting for you, do you?

You don't really think I am waiting for them,now,do you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Never been there but I like the philosophy behind their religion.

But you do understand that they created that "philosophy" just to fit their newly created cult or religion?(!) It is a made up,fictional philosophy,
with lots of fluf but no real meaning...THEY MADE IT ALL UP,Chili,and you MUST know that. IT was not Jesus,not Christ, who made it up!! He did not intend to make a new religion...But the Roman influence, from Paul to Constantine, DID want to make a new religion to unify the empire behind it...And by golly they did it! They created a new religion with all its dogma and rituals and philosophy , stealing as much as they saw necessary from Judaism and from pagan relgions...
The Catholic Church used the figure of Jesus conveniently to go to war, to torture, to burn people at the stake, to terrorize, to abuse...Evil has been running through their veins for centuries...
It is a philosophy of COMPLETE MANIPULATION...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Remember "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?" Three distinct ways to 'reach' God. I read about this a long time ago but forgot what it was all about and really do not care to go into that. I was more interested in Jacob with his hip out of joint (nice metaphor) and from there went into the Gospels that line up better with our tradition.

All this I am saying to you I say without anger but with a certain sadness because you seem to be so "taken" by a Church with such an abusive history ...There was a time when I looked the other way and excused that history but I can't do that anymore...I can't enable that philosophy...I can't even pretend I do...
Take care,Chili...

Chili · 01-24-2006, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

But why would you need a religion specially the Catholic one? Do you realize that the Catholic Church had to INVENT their whole religion? Not even Jesus invented the religion using him as its God! They fabricated the WHOLE thing for the sake of Rome, what Rome represents, not for the sake of Jesus,and certainly not for the sake of Christ.

So what else do you want?

They invented Jesus to built a new illuminating city of God in the mind of the believer that would become manifest on earth in Rome and throughout Christendom as evidence that Christ dwells among us (they just sold a small Russian artifact for over a 100 million).

Quote:

Catholics DO think they are Christians and they DO want to be Christians.
Jesus was no longer a Jew? Where did you get that?

Only in America so they can shut the door on fanatic 'Christian religion' peddlers.

Christian-ity is the end of Catholicism just as it was the end of Judaism for Jesus the Jew who therefore crucified his own Jewish identity to become Christ(ian). We do the same after we have been given the mandate to become follower of Jesus as Jesuit (which was the natural Nazarite in Judaism). So the best you will see a Catholic be is a Jesuit who already is free from the law and from the conviction of sin in the same way that Jesus was free from sin (see Gal.5:1-4 on this) . . . and therefore no longer a Catholic or a Jew but Freeman as Christian.

See the contradiction in calling Jesus a Christian Jew?

Quote:

"6000 nuclear bombs"? "Jesus worshipers I'm so fond of"?
Chili,have you lost it completely? Snap out of it,man! What on earth are you talking about?

Where we built Cathedrals and artifacts in evidence that Christ dwells among us American Jesus worshipers are building warfare to prepare for the second coming of Christ (or Jesus since they don't really know who is supposed to come again or do not know the difference between these two). And yes, 6000 was the number at one time.

Quote:

You don't really think I am waiting for them,now,do you?

Never did.

Quote:

But you do understand that they created that "philosophy" just to fit their newly created cult or religion?(!) It is a made up,fictional philosophy,
with lots of fluf but no real meaning...THEY MADE IT ALL UP,Chili,and you MUST know that. IT was not Jesus,not Christ, who made it up!! He did not intend to make a new religion...But the Roman influence, from Paul to Constantine, DID want to make a new religion to unify the empire behind it...And by golly they did it! They created a new religion with all its dogma and rituals and philosophy , stealing as much as they saw necessary from Judaism and from pagan relgions...
The Catholic Church used the figure of Jesus conveniently to go to war, to torture, to burn people at the stake, to terrorize, to abuse...Evil has been running through their veins for centuries...
It is a philosophy of COMPLETE MANIPULATION...

For sure they made it all up. It is base on the insight of Peter who recognized God in Jesus the Man while everybody else was looking at Jesus the Jew. We made him our first Pope because of that insight is the foundation of an untouchable inspired religion.

Catholicism is a legal branch of Judaism (grafted branches). We walk side by side and share the same heaven each with a different city from where we trade our richess in heaven.

Catholicism became the religion in Christendom, and yes, there are rules to follow by the faithful . It's like a game we play of which the end will be heaven on earth.

Quote:

All this I am saying to you I say without anger but with a certain sadness because you seem to be so "taken" by a Church with such an abusive history ...There was a time when I looked the other way and excused that history but I can't do that anymore...I can't enable that philosophy...I can't even pretend I do...
Take care,Chili...

Thanks, but don't worry about me. I'll defend its 'abusive history' but not our modern day Christian image.

Thomas II · 01-24-2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

So what else do you want?

They invented Jesus to built a new illuminating city of God in the mind of the believer that would become manifest on earth in Rome and throughout Christendom as evidence that Christ dwells among us (they just sold a small Russian artifact for over a 100 million).

Only in America so they can shut the door on fanatic 'Christian religion' peddlers.

Christian-ity is the end of Catholicism just as it was the end of Judaism for Jesus the Jew who therefore crucified his own Jewish identity to become Christ(ian). We do the same after we have been given the mandate to become follower of Jesus as Jesuit (which was the natural Nazarite in Judaism). So the best you will see a Catholic be is a Jesuit who already is free from the law and from the conviction of sin in the same way that Jesus was free from sin (see Gal.5:1-4 on this) . . . and therefore no longer a Catholic or a Jew but Freeman as Christian.

See the contradiction in calling Jesus a Christian Jew?

Where we built Cathedrals and artifacts in evidence that Christ dwells among us American Jesus worshipers are building warfare to prepare for the second coming of Christ (or Jesus since they don't really know who is supposed to come again or do not know the difference between these two). And yes, 6000 was the number at one time.

Never did.

For sure they made it all up. It is base on the insight of Peter who recognized God in Jesus the Man while everybody else was looking at Jesus the Jew. We made him our first Pope because of that insight is the foundation of an untouchable inspired religion.

Catholicism is a legal branch of Judaism (grafted branches). We walk side by side and share the same heaven each with a different city from where we trade our richess in heaven.

Catholicism became the religion in Christendom, and yes, there are rules to follow by the faithful . It's like a game we play of which the end will be heaven on earth.

Thanks, but don't worry about me. I'll defend its 'abusive history' but not our modern day Christian image.

Brother...I hear you...loud and clear...

Now,let me ask you...Who will you follow, Christ , or the Roman Catholic Church?...
Are you willing to leave them behind, let the dead bury the dead, and follow Christ?...(NOT the modern day "Christian image")
Their "abusive story" belongs to "the world", Chili...
Let the world take care of the world...You have already given to Caesar...

BTW, I have to make a distinction between the leaders of the Church and the people who follow ,
and follow blindly...I have met priests who had problems "abandoning the flock" though no problem about abandoning the leadership of the Church,whom they saw as corrupt...That "fig tree" looks more like the leadership of the Church,who,when they were supposed to hail the Christ within they just iddled in the sun, empty and fruitless...Cause if Judaism was represented by the other fig tree, this fig tree now represents the one who should have heralded the birth of Christ within...
Instead,what have they done?...They perverted the children that should have been allowed to approach the Christ instead...And for that let them be cursed,Chili...

Chili · 01-24-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

Brother...I hear you...loud and clear...

Now,let me ask you...Who will you follow, Christ , or the Roman Catholic Church?...

I don't follow anybody and I am not even part of this argument.

As for following Christ? The moment Jesus became Christ he left the scene so how can you or anybody follow him. See absurdity of it all? If you do not believe this see when and where Jesus became Christ = when Jesus died and Bar-abbas was set free.

To become another Christ one must follow the Catholic church but I am not here to tell you that. I am just explaining how it is done (and not in a million years will a non-Catholic or non-Jew ever get there).

Quote:

Are you willing to leave them behind, let the dead bury the dead, and follow Christ?...(NOT the modern day "Christian image")

I belong to the party. It's fun. I'll never be a nice guy, God forbid I would be, since Jesus himself was counted among the wicked before he died.

Quote:

Their "abusive story" belongs to "the world", Chili...
Let the world take care of the world...You have already given to Caesar...

Yes, they have a story to tell. As for being abusive, every game needs a referee to keep track of fair play and between winners and losers. Alas, we lost our referee during the Reformation and have been paying Caesar to built warfare equipment ever since. Have you noticed your medical bill lately. It seems like we are getting sicker by the day, shallower and defiantly not smarter.

Quote:

BTW, I have to make a distinction between the leaders of the Church and the people who follow ,
and follow blindly...I have met priests who had problems "abandoning the flock" though no problem about abandoning the leadership of the Church,whom they saw as corrupt...That "fig tree" looks more like the leadership of the Church,who,when they were supposed to hail the Christ within they just iddled in the sun, empty and fruitless...Cause if Judaism was represented by the other fig tree, this fig tree now represents the one who should have heralded the birth of Christ within...
Instead,what have they done?...They perverted the children that should have been allowed to approach the Christ instead...And for that let them be cursed,Chili...

I allow priests to be corrupt but not the Infallible Church itself. Priests have a life to live for themself but the Church does not. It is Divine and cannot be wrong in its Dogmatic Constitution and that is really all I look at.

Thomas II · 01-24-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

I don't follow anybody and I am not even part of this argument.

As for following Christ? The moment Jesus became Christ he left the scene so how can you or anybody follow him. See absurdity of it all? If you do not believe this see when and where Jesus became Christ = when Jesus died and Bar-abbas was set free.

To become another Christ one must follow the Catholic church but I am not here to tell you that. I am just explaining how it is done (and not in a million years will a non-Catholic or non-Jew ever get there).

So Heaven is just for Jews and Catholics...
Dalai Lama? You are out!...You bad boy!...You no good!...You go now!!
Mahatma? You too are out!!...Go!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

I belong to the party!It's fun. I'll never be a nice guy, God forbid I would be, since Jesus himself was counted among the wicked before he died.

You naughty boy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Yes, they have a story to tell. As for being abusive, every game needs a referee to keep track of fair play and between winners and losers. Alas, we lost our referee during the Reformation and have been paying Caesar to built warfare equipment ever since. Have you noticed your medical bill lately. It seems like we are getting sicker by the day, shallower and defiantly not smarter.

So,in your mind, the abuses of the Church are "a game", with their winners, their loosers, and referees...
The winners would be...the priests?
The loosers would be...the children?
The referee would be...you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

I allow priests to be corrupt but not the Infallible Church itself. Priests have a life to live for themself but the Church does not. It is Divine and cannot be wrong in its Dogmatic Constitution and that is really all I look at.

:worried: It is divine and CANNOT be wrong in its dogmatic constitution?
Meaning it's legislature is infallible...like Caesar's...cause, after all, Caesar is divine too...

Church devine!...Can't be wrong!...That is all I need to know!...
Church devine!...Can't be wrong!...That is all I need to know!...
Church devine!...Can't be wrong!...That is all I need to know!...

And what is this that you "allow the priests to be corrupt cause they have a life to live for themselves"?...You mean they don't represent Christ on earth anymore? Cause that is what we were taught when we were kids...and we called them "Father"... So who cares if they are corrupt cause you are not your brother's keeper and that is that...

See,that is just the problem! You have allowed God's house to become a den of thieves...

Chili · 01-24-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

So Heaven is just for Jews and Catholics...
Dalai Lama? You are out!...You bad boy!...You no good!...You go now!!
Mahatma? You too are out!!...Go!

They call it Nirvana and they have their own vehicle(s) to reach that stage in life. They are good and they are great but their Nirvana is no good to you or me. Sure, call it the same, equal, or even greater for all I care, but notice that their 'mansions' are different, and that they have their own way to get there. Better yet, they don't have to die to get there and that is the same kind of heaven I am talking about and we have lots of saints to prove this. Actually we have a entire division that is known as the Church Triumphant and these are all there.

Quote:

So,in your mind, the abuses of the Church are "a game", with their winners, their loosers, and referees...
The winners would be...the priests?
The loosers would be...the children?
The referee would be...you?

Catholicism itself is a game if suffering and sin are illusions which they must be if eternal bliss can be found here on earth. This game is like a stationary vehicle wherein we journey along between pleasure and pain until we come to a full stop, as if the mains switch is thrown and from there only entropy is required to do the rest. This would be faith issue that has nothing to do with us except for the reason to be called and chosen.

Quote:

:worried: It is divine and CANNOT be wrong in its dogmatic constitution?
Meaning it's legislature is infallible...like Caesar's...cause, after all, Caesar is divine too...

If it's a game, how can you be wrong if it is your own game? and if they are wrong when the game is over only a Catholic will ever know because they are the only people that are able to "complete this race," as Paul put it.

Quote:

And what is this that you "allow the priests to be corrupt cause they have a life to live for themselves"?...You mean they don't represent Christ on earth anymore? Cause that is what we were taught when we were kids...and we called them "Father"... So who cares if they are corrupt cause you are not your brother's keeper and that is that...

Just because "they have a life to live" does not suggest that I agree with corruption. I am just willing to let them live their own life.

Quote:

See,that is just the problem! You have allowed God's house to become a den of thieves...

I don 't see much thievery going on but then, I don't go to Church much either.

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01-23-2006, 09:14 AM	#21
Thomas II Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 8,254	What?...What do I mean by ALL THAT IS?... ...The I AM that I AM... And that is...what? THAT IS ALL... :grin:

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