Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Doctor X · 03-04-2004, 03:06 AM

Here is what Callahan states--probably another anti-semite . . . I mean he has an Irish name and all [Get on with it!--Ed.]:

Quote:

Biblical scholars often skirt the issue of what happened to these 32 Midianite virgins, either saying that those women and girls were made servants carrying out menial tasks to maintain the tabernacle, or, as Noth asserts, that they were given as slaves to the members of the Aaronic priesthood. Both conjectures fail if this story has any validity at all. Certainly the Midianite/Moabite women, the remnant of the nation that tried ot seduce worshippers away from Yahweh, would not have been rusted near the holy cult objects of that god. As to the portion devoted to Yahweh going to the Aaronic priests as separate from the Levites, this only makes sense in terms of the divisions of the Levites as established with the centralization of sacrificial worship at Jerusalem in the time of David and later (i.e. after 1000 BCE). In fact, despite the war on Midian (or Moab) being a Priestly narrative, if it was derived from actual history, then that which was "devoted" or "dedicated" to Yahweh denoted sacrifice. P is quite clear on the fate of human beings "offered to the Lord." Lev. 27:29 says: "No oe devoted, who is to be utterly destroyed from among men shall be ransomed; he shall be put to death." The Hebrew word translated as a "heave offering" in the KJV is terumah, meaning specifically, a sacrificial offering.

Funny what happens when one reads the texts.

--J.D.

Reference:

Callahan T. Secret Origins of the Bible Altadena: Millenium Press, 2002.

Jack the Bodiless · 03-04-2004, 03:21 AM

...Thanks for that. I'll file it away for future use.

Ed · 03-04-2004, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by brighid
I want to apologize for not answering Ed's posts to me. I have been extremely busy and have not had the time I normally would to address lengthier posts. I have plenty to say (as anyone who has spent time here knows) but my schedule is just insane at this moment. I will attempt to reply soon, but I also think that Doctor X, Jack the Bodiless, et al have done a fine job in my absence. Thank you fellas.

Brighid

I hope you return soon, because contrary to what you think the good doctor and Jack have not done a very good job. They seem to ignore anything that doesn't fit their pet theories to demonize the ancient jews.

The Other Michael · 03-04-2004, 09:30 PM

1. Accusing other users of being liars is against the IIDB rules. Please refrain from doing so.

2. Can anyone offer a justification for not sending this thread to BC&H? I'm seeing lots of arguing about Biblical stuff, and a very small amount of Moral Foundations and Principles discussion.

cheers,
Michael
MF&P Moderator (mead)

Doctor X · 03-04-2004, 09:59 PM

This:

Quote:

They seem to ignore anything that doesn't fit their pet theories to demonize the ancient jews (sic).

is a lie.

The individual had his clock cleaned by those who actually bothered to read the texts. The point of the opening post had to do with the morality of a god that would punish someone for doing something he forced him to do.

It has been proven, with citations of the texts and the peer-reviewed literature the following:

1. A history of sacrifice refered to in the text.
2. A deity that accepted and required sacrifices.
3. The requirement of the herem.
4. A history of polytheism.
5. A motivation on the deity to demonstrate his power through destruction.

What has the individual had to offer in response?

1. Ignoring the texts.
2. Misquoting the texts.
3. Purposely mischaracterizing the posts and motivations of others.
4. Branding Jewish scholars "anti-semitic" because they refute his unsubstantiated claims.
5. Temper-tantrums and behavior not worthy of the unspeakable denizens that infest the nethers of lesser species.

Since I have seen no evidence that the individual will bring anything worthy of debate in a forum that will demand he actually know the texts and scholarship rather than make wild claims then shrink into argumentum ad hominem and libel, I, for one, see no justifiable reason to move this anywhere or continue the discussion.

As I have stated above, I only deal with gentlemen, and an individual that lies about other poster's posts and smears respected scholars with the ridiculous label "anti-semitic" is no gentleman.

. . . and that is all I have to say. . . .

--J.D.

Jack the Bodiless · 03-05-2004, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Other Michael
1. Accusing other users of being liars is against the IIDB rules. Please refrain from doing so.

...Even when that poster plainly has lied?

I really don't see how this "debate" can continue. Everything relevant has been said, and Ed has been forced back into "deny everything" mode.

Wouldn't locking the thread be more appropriate than moving it? It would be a mercy-killing.

The AntiChris · 03-05-2004, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doctor X

This:

"They seem to ignore anything ..........."

is a lie.

How can an opinion be a lie?

Chris

Jack the Bodiless · 03-05-2004, 04:04 AM

The AntiChris seems to be offering me his girlfriend, all of his money, and all his worldly goods.

The AntiChris · 03-05-2004, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless
The AntiChris seems to be offering me his girlfriend, all of his money, and all his worldly goods.

You don't believe that.

Jack the Bodiless · 03-05-2004, 04:52 AM

...Are you implying that I'm a liar?

Accusing other users of being liars is against the IIDB rules. Please refrain from doing so.

03-04-2004, 09:30 PM	#64
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	This is a public service announcement 1. Accusing other users of being liars is against the IIDB rules. Please refrain from doing so. 2. Can anyone offer a justification for not sending this thread to BC&H? I'm seeing lots of arguing about Biblical stuff, and a very small amount of Moral Foundations and Principles discussion. cheers, Michael MF&P Moderator (mead)

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03-04-2004, 03:21 AM	#62
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	...Thanks for that. I'll file it away for future use.

03-05-2004, 04:04 AM	#68
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	The AntiChris seems to be offering me his girlfriend, all of his money, and all his worldly goods.

03-05-2004, 04:52 AM	#70
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	...Are you implying that I'm a liar? Accusing other users of being liars is against the IIDB rules. Please refrain from doing so.

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