trexmaster

I think that, without the anti-rationalism promoted by the churches, scientific advances would occur much earlier. Possibly, we would have automobiles by the early half of the last millennium, and cancer would have been cured by the seventeenth century, if not earlier.

What do you think would have been different if there was no Christianity?

EDIT: Click here to check out some of the amazing scientific accomplishments in pre-Christian times!

Bede

Hi Trexmaster,

I think you are probably wrong about this. Many historians today realise that the Church was a major sponsor of science and that Christianity might well have been an important factor in the rise of modern science.

You might find my article here of interest. Failing that, Edward Grant, John Hedley Brooke, Rodney Stark, Toby Huff, JL Heilbron and Peter Harrison have all written books on the often positive impact of Christianity on science.

Best wishes

Bede

edited to add: the link you supplied is to an worthless anti-Christian polemicist who is, as far as I can tell, entirely wrong about everything he has written on his site. :angry:

Harry Bosch

You are correct; most scientists in early Europe were Christians. However, once science began challenging certain Christian beliefs, many Christian "scientists" abandoned the scientific method and began relying on cheap parlor tricks to push their agenda.

CJD

As if spontaneous generation (otherwise known as "organic evolution") wasn't (and isn't) a cheap parlor trick.

I'm not bashing micro-evolution here (or the notion that the cosmos is billions of years old); I'm rolling my eyes at the attempt of some people to dress spontaneous generation up with another name.

Harry Bosch

The American science has not really been burdened by Christian fundamentalists until recently. And, the fundamentalists have not won yet. Reason and the scientific method may prevail. Maybe we need a shock to the system the way that the Russian satellite shocked the US in the 1950's. I think that China will be that shock to the system. I think that they will provide the healthy competition that could wake the US up. The power of the US will fade if the pace of scientific advances are stamped on by the fundamentalists.

Clivedurdle

Persian Fire argues if certain battles - Marathon etc - had gone differently, we would never have had Plato and there would definitely have been no xianity or Islam!

It's terrifying!

trexmaster

That's what I would call an ad homein argument.

The "Renaissance" under Charlemagne is a fiction.

Either way, whether or not the Church did encourage intellectualism, the Bible isn't a pro-intellectual book.

Bede

Except that I've had experience of this guy before and know of what I speak.

If you like, why not bring a couple of specific points here for discussion. That way we can see how your authority measures up. Don't just argue by link but read what he says and see if you can defend any of his arguments.

Best wishes

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

Johann_Kaspar

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Berthold

Arguments about cultural merits of the church should be relativized concerning all aspects of culture: E. g. for medieval artists the church was nearly the only game in town, and it remained a major player for some time afterwards. Similarly, with knowledge: The clergy monopolized literacy and all existing records (ask Hypatia what happened to the others and by whose action). With such conditions, all church hierarchs would have had to be nincompoops in order not to achieve something.