ksen

Using modern sensibilities to judge and condemn ancient cultures is also unfair.

Loaded question(s).

It's not confusing at all. It's pretty clear what it says about slavery.

Exciter

Then what religion do you think you would have been back then? Probably not Judaism, God doesn't call people to Judaism as far as I can tell, and you believe God has called you to be the religion you are now, which you claim makes you shocked in regards to slavery. Is all slavery shocking in your eyes except the slavery that ancient Judaism practiced?

Stephen T-B

"Using modern sensibilities to judge and condemn ancient cultures is also unfair". (ksen).

Three questions:

is slavery wrong?

If so, is it as wrong today as it has always been wrong?

If not, why not?

Selsaral

IMHO, post #64 by JamesBrown deunks this suggestion.

Further, I can't help but notice that if God didn't exist, human morality would slowly change over time. So you're saying that God works in a way that is identical to the way things would be if he didn't exist? :constern02:

(Also, although everyone's heard it before, I have to point that God has never revealed anything to anyone. All we have are claims by humans that God told them to tell us stuff. It seems foolish not to place great emphasis on this difference).

Johnny Skeptic

But if a loving God inspired the Bible, it is reasonable to assume that he would never tell Jews that if a Jew killed a Jew, he would be put to death, but if a Jew killed a slave, he would only be punished, but not punished at all if the slave recovered within a few days. It would not have been difficult at all for a God to provide proper oversight regarding the proper treatment of slaves. After all, he provided all kinds of oversight in many ways, i.e., Sodom and Gomorrah and the Ten Plagues in Egypt. If anything, the God of the Old Testament was quite strict, and not bashful regarding his agenda. For instance, he ordered the killing of Jews who worked on the Sabbath Day, cursed at their parents, and practiced the freedom of religion by worshipping other Gods.

Is it your position that God's protection of Jews was conditional upon good behavior, or that God did not promise to protect the Jews?

ksen

My position is the former.

Johnny Skeptic

Well of course it is clear what the Bible says about slavery for anyone who can read, but that is not the issue. The issue is what the Bible means about slavery. What the Bible means about slavery is confusing. For example, Jefferson Davis was the President of the Southern Confederacy during the Civil War. He was a Christian. He believed that the Bible condones slavery, meaning not only ancient slavery, but slavery during his time. The Bible never prohibits owning slaves, right?

What about the global flood, the Ten Plagues in Egypt, the two apparently different deaths of Judas, and the apparently different accounts of the visits to the tomb? Do you believe that a global flood occured? Do you believe that the Ten Plagues in Egypt occured?

Will you agree with me that if a God inspired the Bible, he would easily have been able to prevent lots of controversy and wars if he has inspired writings that were much more clear and easy to understand?

Johnny Skeptic

But if a loving God inspired the Bible, it is reasonable to assume that he would never tell Jews that if a Jew killed a Jew, he would be put to death, but if a Jew killed a slave, he would only be punished, but not punished at all if the slave recovered within a few days. It would not have been difficult at all for a God to provide proper oversight regarding the proper treatment of slaves. After all, he provided all kinds of oversight in many ways, i.e., Sodom and Gomorrah and the Ten Plagues in Egypt. If anything, the God of the Old Testament was quite strict, and not bashful regarding his agenda. For instance, he ordered the killing of Jews who worked on the Sabbath Day, cursed at their parents, and practiced the freedom of religion by worshipping other Gods.

The best conclusion is that the God of the Bible does not exist. If a God did inspire the Bible, in my opinion, he is immoral.

Johnny Skeptic

Does that mean that God forced Jewish babies to suffer too when their parents were disobedient? If so, that is understandable since God forces innocent animals to suffer along with humans. In addition, does that mean that God did not kill Jews with hurricanes or any other supernatural disaster if they were obedient? I said "supernatural" disaster because from a Biblical perspective, there is not any such thing as a natural disaster.

ksen

That is correct.

As long as men use religion to further their political ambitions it wouldn't matter how clear God made the Bible. Men would still use it to bash one another over the heads in order to try and control them.

I mean, he could have just written, "Love the Lord thy God, and love thy neighbor as thyself" and you'd still have people arguing and fighting and trying to control.

Wait, that is in the Bible.