Freethought & Rationalism Archive

greenbear · 04-07-2006, 07:42 PM

Does the Judas book provide any confirmation as to the the exsistence of Jesus? I've read Christians stating it confirms the historical validity of Jesus. Does the date argue against a historically valid confirmation?

Toto · 04-07-2006, 08:20 PM

The gospel of Judas is no more likely to be historical than any other Gnostic gospel of the second century.

Diogenes the Cynic · 04-07-2006, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

The gospel of Judas is no more likely to be historical than any other Gnostic gospel of the second century.

Or the Canonical Gospels, for that matter.

Peter Kirby · 04-08-2006, 01:25 AM

[salvage attempt]
How did the author of the Gospel of Judas view his work? What kind of genre can be ascribed to it?

What did the author of the Gospel of Judas believe about Jesus? Not just whether he existed, but what was his nature and authority?
[/salvage attempt]

regards,
Peter Kirby

andrewcriddle · 04-08-2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kirby

[salvage attempt]
How did the author of the Gospel of Judas view his work? What kind of genre can be ascribed to it?

What did the author of the Gospel of Judas believe about Jesus? Not just whether he existed, but what was his nature and authority?
[/salvage attempt]

regards,
Peter Kirby

Judas' Confession of Faith says of Jesus

Quote:

You are from the Immortal Realm of Barbelo. And I am not worthy to utter the name of the one who has sent you.

Andrew Criddl

Toto · 04-08-2006, 09:54 AM

Elaine Pagels in NY Times Op Ed piece

Quote:

Yet those early Christians who loved and revered such texts did not think of themselves as heretics, but as Christians who had received not only what Jesus preached publicly, but also what he taught his disciples when they were talking privately. Many regarded these secret gospels not as radical alternatives to the New Testament Gospels, but as advanced-level teaching for those who had already received Jesus' basic message. Even the Gospel of Mark tells us that Jesus explained things to certain disciples in private, entrusting to them alone "the mystery of the Kingdom of God."

If so, Jesus would have been doing what many other rabbis did then, and most teachers do today. Many of the gospels not included in the New Testament claim to offer secret teaching: Thus the Gospel of Thomas opens, "These are the secret words which the living Jesus spoke, and Didymus Judas Thomas wrote them down." The Gospel of Mary Magdalene reveals what Jesus showed Mary in a vision, and the Gospel of Judas claims to offer a spiritual mystery entrusted to Judas alone.

. . .

What in the Gospel of Judas, published this week by the National Geographic Society (disclosure: I was a consultant on the project), goes back to Jesus' actual teaching, and how would we know? And what else was there in the early Christian movement that we had not known before? These are some of the difficult questions that the discoveries raise for us — issues that historians are already debating. What is clear is that the Gospel of Judas has joined the other spectacular discoveries that are exploding the myth of a monolithic Christianity and showing how diverse and fascinating the early Christian movement really was.

There you have it. Scholars are debating all these questions.

04-07-2006, 07:42 PM	#1
greenbear Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Six Flags Posts: 906	Impact of the new judas book Does the Judas book provide any confirmation as to the the exsistence of Jesus? I've read Christians stating it confirms the historical validity of Jesus. Does the date argue against a historically valid confirmation?

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04-07-2006, 08:20 PM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The gospel of Judas is no more likely to be historical than any other Gnostic gospel of the second century.

04-08-2006, 01:25 AM	#4
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	[salvage attempt] How did the author of the Gospel of Judas view his work? What kind of genre can be ascribed to it? What did the author of the Gospel of Judas believe about Jesus? Not just whether he existed, but what was his nature and authority? [/salvage attempt] regards, Peter Kirby

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