aa5874

THE explanation that Ehrman gives is NOT logical. "Talitha cumi" in gMark 5.41 does NOT indicate at all that the author was fluent in Aramaic or that the story originate in Aramaic.

The author gMark may have been simply trying to impress his readers by using two Aramaic words for his Jesus character.

thief of fire

Interesting post.

I do wonder ,now, though, why anyone would want a such a dysfunctional god as the biblical one?

Vorkosigan

""'Secondly, this is further evidence that Mark was a normal and fallible bilingual,"""

Yes, D'oh. Exactly what I have been saying. Thanks, Dio. Sometimes Mark's errors are meaningful, sometimes they are not. Either way, confusion here does not show that Mark is working off a source. It shows that Mark was confused.

Exactly. They are translations, as I said.

I've read Casey. I don't see how it is possible to ascribe the term "method" to the mode of operation of a scholar who thinks Judas was a real person and who reads the mind of Jesus. Truly he is a genius! Steve Carr has been having a field day with Casey's mind numbing historical naivete.

You might also note that expertise in Aramaic does not equal skill in literary and historical analysis, and that citing him as an expert in the former to offer support for the latter is simply an argument from faux authority. Especially when Casey is very obviously engaged in apologetics and not scholarship.

It's really simple, Dio. Casey has no methodology that can support his claims. He can't differentiate between translation and between dependency on a source, no such methodology exists. He can't show the existence of sources that go back to Jesus. If he had such a methodology, you would simply bring it forth and show me and terminate this discussion.

Vorkosigan

Vorkosigan

The superior explanation is in the text itself, which it offers to us -- it translates back and forth between greek and aramaic -- the writer tells us that he's translating! In other cases the translation is obvious, like 15:34. Perhaps he did the translations, perhaps he asked someone. Same thing. Any explanation that calls for sources is vastly inferior since it multiplies entities unnecessarily as well as calling forth an unsubstantiated chain of transmission. If you want to posit Aramaic sources, show me the chain of transmission. And of course, because positing an aramaic source is an apologetic rather than scholarly move, no such chain exists.

Vorkosigan

thief of fire

If I wanted to I would argue on the basis of the style grammar and word order.

Vorkosigan

<shrug> Show me. That would be very interesting.

Vorkosigan

spin

The other leg plays Jingle Bells.

It's the style, grammar, word order, idioms and vocabulary that identify a Latin substratum to Mark. It was fairly certainly written in Rome. Can you explain the form "Herodian" any other way? It shows a Latin gentilic suffix used in Greek. I've shown many Latin traces in Mark here in the past, the explanations for a Roman audience is one of the obvious examples--a hall is explained as a paetorium and two leptas are explained as a quadrans. What use are such explanations to a non-Roman Greek audience??

And while I'm here Casey's inability to explain the /oa/ in Boamerges shows that he doesn't know what he's doing.

thief of fire

The semitic style found in Mark (and other places in the NT) seems an easier way to argue to me, though Casey is probably wanting to do something a little different, I guess <shrugs back>.
These features make Mark very unusual if Mark is literature. Its a very progressive piece of art.

spin

Gods tend to reflect their creators.

hjalti

I did a quick google search for exactly this stuff earlier. I've heard this example earlier, but I wasn't sure of the exact frequency of these coins in the ancient world. Must admit that I'm not well versed in ancient coins. :Cheeky:

You guys know of any good sources discussing this leptas/quadrans example? I imagine that we can have a pretty good idea of where in the empire these coins were in much use.

From a very superficial search, it seems to me that both leptas and quadrans were issued in Palestine.