Donnmathan

Thus far, I remain totally unconvinced that the Catholics aren't a Christian faith. So far, you have merely insinuated that the Catholics are less selfish than the Protestants ("sins of the world" vs. "sins of my world") - not a lot of difference, there. Then you point out that the Catholics are awaiting the second coming of Jesus...no difference there, either. I would like to point out that, according to any standard, Jesus (myth or man) was born and died a Jew! He never became anything else, unless you care to postulate that he began worshiping himself before he died. Even if he were, unless you are in the habit of re-writing history, the Catholics were the first Christian church - Martin Luther broke the Protestants off from them.

Quite right - every Catholic I ever talked to has said they were born right - and followed Jesus - the first time. :rolling:

So - because they prefer to let someone who studied it interpret the bible for them rather than going their own way, they are "not bible people?" I'm sure my mother-in-law, who was a VERY devout Catholic and read her bible every day, would have been fascinated to hear that!

You need to visit St. Mary's, in Minneapolis - charismatics, speaking in tongues, the whole nine yards, and QUITE Roman Catholic.

:rolling: I guess you are in the habit of re-writing history! Hate to break this to you, but Catholics were the first major Christian faith - they didn't "adopt" anything!

I'm sure the IRS would be fascinated to hear that - would mean they can start taxing all of those so-called "churches" that aren't involved in religon! I think, however, you might find that any dictionary would contradict your assertion.

:huh: I see...so, history and your own bible, which both have the Christian faith springing out of the prophesies of the Jewish faith, are both wrong. The very fact that half of the teachings of the Christian bible are based on the Jewish holy book is just coincidence? Point blank - the Christians are a group of Jews and others who believed that the Messiah prophysised in the Jewish holy books was born in the person of a man named Jesus. Without Jewish phrophecy, Christianity wouldn't exist!

Chili

I'll take up the challenge and let me first say that our mandate from the bible is to obtain the mind of Christ and in this sense are Christians in heaven where there are no temples to be found (Rev.21:22). Notice that when Jesus became fully Christ with Thomas' exclamation after all doubt had been removed with "my Lord and my God" that Jesus Christ ascended into heaven.

The lineage of Luke is via "the son" of Mary (although it was "supposed" that he was the son of Joseph) to Adam to God to say that "son-of-man" was not a Jew or he would have been called son-of-Jew. Moreover, if Mary was from Nazareth in Galilee, Mary was not a Jew either.

He was a Freeman after his first death and until his second death.

Catholics were never Christians and the early Christians (various gnostic sects) were the problem for the early Church to get their religion started on the right track.

From their point of view 'so called Christians' have always been a problem that they called 'heretics' and they were always excommunicated. It is along this anathema side of the Church that Protestants are able to claim apostolic tradition right back to Peter when the first disciples of Jesus parted company with him in Jn.6:66.

But wait, I do not object to you calling Catholics Christians, but I just want to give you the critical perspective and for that I only have to rewrite some Protestant theology.You got to love 'm for that. I agree.Agreed. One must be careful not to judge some of them old girls but she must have been different as a teenager . . . and that is what Catholicism is all about.
I know, we also have this college in Steubenville that is quit different and probably in compliance with Vatican II. You're not breaking nothing to me. What I write is actually from the bible and I just want you to recognize it here today. You should take a good look at Jn.1:13 where there are two kinds of rebirth identified. One is from carnal desire and the other is from God. Protestant altar calls and evangelistic events are typically carnal in origin and thus, obviously, not of God. These will become the Jesus worshipers some Protestants boast about and are identified as the second beast of Revelation that came out of the old earth = carnal in origin and their vehicle on which they soar through mid-heaven is a nicely arranged bundle of bible passages (Rev.13 and 14). Do they have incarceration for tax evaders over there?I think Catholics would be considered grafted branches into the root of Judaism and from these the Protestants are separated brethren. This makes Catholics NT people and Jews OT people and Protestants just severed from both and therefore my cuckold image to engender a messiah.

None of the above suggest that Protestants are evil and have no faith. It is just that the philosophy behind their religion does prove itself capable to transform the old heaven and earth into the New Heaven and Earth where the [celestial] sea is no longer (Rev.21:1)..

Donnmathan

Well, that is a pretty odd version of history you have there, my friend. One - your assertion that Jesus was not a Jew is just bizarre, to say the least. He was only called what he was because he supposedly was the Jewish Messiah, the "King of the Jews"; to say he was not a Jew himself actually makes him a non-entity, a man without a claim to the title the Christian religion gives him. Likewise, I still find absolutely no basis for your assertion that the Catholics are not Christian - merely repeating that assertion doesn't make it any more valid! They believe this Jesus was the Messiah of Jewish prophesy, that he died to erase sin, that he was in fact the son of their god - exactly the same as every other Christian religion. The only area they really differ in is doctrine, the same area the differences between the various Protestant denominations show up in. Let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

All I can say is...your bible and your faith make less sense to me now than they did before I left Christianity. I have since taken a number of courses in comparative theology, theological history, mythology, and anthropology, and must say I find your stance completely unsupported by anything else I have heard or read. Every one of the histories I have read agree that the Christian faith emerged from the Jewish, likely as a cult of personality formed around a man who claimed to be the Jewish Messiah (true or not is irrelevant), that the Catholic church was the first major denomination formed around his teachings, and that all of the Protestant religions appeared AFTER, and can be traced back to, Martin Luther. That history is why I find the statement made in the first post so bizarre - because of the history of the Christian faiths, they are going to of course have a version of the Jewish holy books, and I find it strange that the Jews would give a rat's rear what they call it. In that context, it is part of the Christian holy book, and the Jews have no more right to yell about what they call it than the Christians have to yell about what the Jews call theirs.

Oh, and please do not try to tell me your religion is decended from the early heretics of the Catholic Church. I'm familiar with such things, and they bear no resemblance what so ever to what you are saying, nor to any current Protestant faith. Unless...you are trying to claim you are a Gnostic?

greyline

Don't fret, Donnmathan. Chili did admit in another thread that he is just making this all up.

Donnmathan

Which explains the comment about changing some Protestant theology. Thanks, greyline; I was beginning to wonder if I was missing something somewhere.

Magdlyn

Chili likes to come in and muck up threads with his [expletive deleted]. Quite often Toto does us all a favor by splitting off his [expletive]s into their own thread.

Chris Weimer

Now, now, Magdlyn, even though he's just scratching the imaginary record, sometimes I have found Chili to be quite amusing and certainly he has a much better religion than mere Christianity?

Chili

Thanks cweb. I try to be nice and polite.

Chili

So Greyline, since when is originality not appreciated in the department of philosophy. Would it not be better to just defeat my argument?

Lugubert

Chili,

I don't even see them as complaining. I'm not. I appreciate the suggestions, and am currently considering OBX/NBX (Old[er]/New[er] Book of the Christians).

I'm not terribly fascinated by the construction of the calendar of the majority, but I wish you all good years, however you number them.