Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ryzo · 10-31-2005, 03:01 PM

One of my nontheist friends was talking about this parable as an example of how confusing and vague the bible is because it appears that God is blatantly advocating killing people and because of that it is commonly ignored by xian theists. However he doesn't know where in the bible it is because it has been a while since he last read it. Does anyone know what he was talking about?

Toto · 10-31-2005, 03:27 PM

Google is your friend

It's not in the Bible - it's in the non-canonical Gospel of Thomas:

Quote:

Tho 98

98 Jesus said: The kingdom of the Father is like a man who wanted to kill a powerful man. While he was in his own house, he drew the sword and drove it into the wall, that he might determine that his hand would be strong enough. Then he slew the powerful man.

The Five Gospels: What Did Jesus Really Say?(Robert W. Funk, Roy W. Hoover, & The Jesus Seminar (NY: HarperCollins, 1993, page 524-525) comments on this parable:

The assassin. The sheer violence and scandal of the image of the assassin suggests that it might well have originated with Jesus. It is unlikely that the early Christian community would have invented and have attributed such a story to Jesus since its imagery is so contrary to the irenic and honorific images, such as the good shepherd, they customarily used for him. In ancient society, it was expected that kings and tyrants would act violently to enforce their will. Ordinary people were expected to refrain from violent behavior, unless, or course, they were brigands or revolutionaries. The parable of the assassin is reminiscent of the parables of the tower builder (luke 14:28-30) and the warring king (Luke 14:31-32), all three of which have to do with estimating the cost of an act or the capability to perform it successfully.

Chris Weimer · 10-31-2005, 04:35 PM

Peter Kirby's Thomas Site

Ryzo · 10-31-2005, 05:08 PM

Ahh thanks. Out of curiosity why isn't the Gospel of Thomas a book in the modern bible? Afterall he was a disciple of Jesus too, how is Thomas any less valid than Matthew, Mark, Luke or John?

mata leao · 10-31-2005, 06:42 PM

scyld, how do you auhtenticate the writings of Thomas? please explain your evidence.....

Splarnst · 10-31-2005, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

scyld, how do you auhtenticate the writings of Thomas? please explain your evidence.....

How do you authenticate the writings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

mata leao · 10-31-2005, 06:50 PM

I asked scyld first!

Ryzo · 10-31-2005, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

scyld, how do you auhtenticate the writings of Thomas? please explain your evidence.....

I don't claim to. How do you authenticate that the bible is the word of god? I'm merely curious as to why Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are considered valid by most xians, but Thomas isn't.

mata leao · 10-31-2005, 06:56 PM

if you have no clue whatsoever of the authenticity, canonic value, etc of Thomas then how in the world could you possibly know how to compare it to the other gospels?

Toto · 10-31-2005, 06:57 PM

Formation of the New Testament Canon

Quote:

. . .Irenaeus, whose voice is as close to official as any of the time, has this to say about the selection of the four Tatian Gospels (which he calls "the four-form Gospel" or "one Gospel in four forms"):

It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are, since there are four directions of the world in which we are, and four principal winds...the four living creatures [of Revelation 4.9] symbolize the four Gospels...and there were four principal covenants made with humanity, through Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Christ. (Against All Heresies 3.11.8; cf. M 263)

Clearly, less than scholarly reasoning was affecting the canonization process. . .

10-31-2005, 03:01 PM	#1
Ryzo Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: U.S., N.C Posts: 465	The parable of the assassin One of my nontheist friends was talking about this parable as an example of how confusing and vague the bible is because it appears that God is blatantly advocating killing people and because of that it is commonly ignored by xian theists. However he doesn't know where in the bible it is because it has been a while since he last read it. Does anyone know what he was talking about?

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10-31-2005, 04:35 PM	#3
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Peter Kirby's Thomas Site

10-31-2005, 05:08 PM	#4
Ryzo Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: U.S., N.C Posts: 465	Ahh thanks. Out of curiosity why isn't the Gospel of Thomas a book in the modern bible? Afterall he was a disciple of Jesus too, how is Thomas any less valid than Matthew, Mark, Luke or John?

10-31-2005, 06:42 PM	#5
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	scyld, how do you auhtenticate the writings of Thomas? please explain your evidence.....

10-31-2005, 06:50 PM	#7
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	I asked scyld first!

10-31-2005, 06:56 PM	#9
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	if you have no clue whatsoever of the authenticity, canonic value, etc of Thomas then how in the world could you possibly know how to compare it to the other gospels?

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